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86 2M4 - No Spark

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Matt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 86 2M4 - No Spark
    Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:53pm
Here is the picture...

1. No spark to plugs. (with new cap and rotor)
2. TBI is not spitting fuel when iginition is turned on nor when it's being cranked.
3. Distributor spins on engine crank.
4. Distributor pick up coil is rusty
5. Ignition coil is still magnetic but 4 prong white and black male imputs are very corroded.
6. No codes


Have yet to use Ohm Meter on pickup and ignition coil. Will post results when I find them. The funny is, it was running great on Dec 29. Then sat since Dec 29-Jan29. Tried it on Jan 29 and it would not start.

Any other suggestions on what to look for, check, etc.
I wanna go fast.
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D_sensitized View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote D_sensitized Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 5:35pm
have you checked the fuel filter? it could be clogged
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Dr.Fiero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 6:36pm
Meter across the 2 p/u coil wires.  Should read about 7-800 ohms.

If that's crusty/rusty/etc swap it out - it'll just fail shortly anyhow. 
If it does check out OK though, replace ignition module.  Make sure the base is CLEAN and FLAT.  Use the correct heat sink compound, and don't pile it on.

edit: forgot to mention...  if the module is shot, the coil needs replacing, and there's any question at all about the rest of it - I've recently found it's a better economy to pick up a complete reman dist assy.  Might be a few bucks more, but cheaper in the long run.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Buddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 6:38pm
Oh Boy, check fuel filter for a no spark? Time to start interviewing first Cap!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 7:59pm
Checked the Ignition Coil, it's good.

I think I'm going to get a whole distributor from a wrecker tomorrow. First I'll just change the module, but if that doesn't work I'll change out the distributor coil as well.

Does it make sense that the TBI would stop working if the module was dead? I can hear the fuel pump working, just no spray. There is some dripping though.

Again this car was fully running beautifully when I parked it on Dec 29, and was not touched until Jan 29 when I tried to start it and found this whole mess.

*EDIT* What is the approx size of the distributor o-ring for a 86 2M4. And this heat-paste. Would CPU (Computer)  heat-paste err I mean..*cough*thermal compound*cough* work?
I wanna go fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote D_sensitized Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Buddy Buddy wrote:

Oh Boy, check fuel filter for a no spark? Time to start interviewing first Cap!


I was thinking for the no fuel part, guess i got my mind mixed up with something else.
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Patrick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 8:32pm

Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

And this heat-paste. Would CPU (Computer) heat-paste work?

Yes, thermal compound for CPU heatsinks is perfect.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 8:46pm
Yes, the injector will stop spraying if the module goes out.  The ECM picks up it's "the engine is rotating" signal from....  ready?  the ignition module!  No rotation, the ECM figures "why squirt?".


BTW - you say you can see dripping from the injector tip?  That's not a good thing.  You might want to get in there realy close and see if it's actually coming from the tip, or if it's leaking from the O-ring at the top of the injector where it meets the body.  Either one....  fix it....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 9:33pm
Yes after about 6x key on, key off, key on it there is one small drip that appears to be coming from the tip. I'll get in there tomorrow and see exactly where it's coming from though.

Thanks for the tip.

Any ideas the size of the distributor o-ring?
I wanna go fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2009 at 9:35pm
Go to GM - ask them for the 'brown' o-ring.  Don't try to just use a jobber type one, it'll fail in no time flat.

Learned that one early on!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2009 at 2:59pm
Let me bring you all up to speed.

1. TBI is not leaking.
2. Put in new module, nothing changed.
3. If I ground out the left prong on the bottom of the module that hooks up to the distributor pick-up coil, the TBI will spit gas.

Does this mean my Distributor Pick-up Coil is not completing the circuit and thus dead?


I wanna go fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2009 at 4:38pm
Did you meter the pick up coil?  As I was saying...  it should read about 700-800 ohms.  It should also NOT be shorted to ground!  If it's crusty - just replace it.  They're cheap.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2009 at 5:43pm
I have bought a new pick-up coil. But I've never taken out a distributor before. I've pulled it out and marked the gear cog to the housing and marked where the rotor cap sits. But I have run into a snag. I don't have a punch set!  I just want to drive my car.
I wanna go fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2009 at 6:08pm
And here lies where I said....  just pick up a reman distributor....  :(

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2009 at 9:19pm
From where? I've been looking for them.
I wanna go fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2009 at 9:39pm
Lordco: P/N D2098
Napa: p/n NRD 481454

Make sure you "know someone" there before you go shopping.
This is one of those things I'm pretty sure is well inflated.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2009 at 10:14pm
Really? What kind of a price tag are we talking about?
I wanna go fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2009 at 12:22am

Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

Really? What kind of a price tag are we talking about?

Sitting down? Maybe $250 or so at Lordco. I hate Lordco.

Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

I have bought a new pick-up coil. But I've never taken out a distributor before. I've pulled it out and marked the gear cog to the housing and marked where the rotor cap sits. But I have run into a snag. I don't have a punch set! 

Improvise. My punch was broken. I used a machine screw instead. Worked fine when used as a punch. I just held it with a pair of pliers and hit it with a hammer. It doesn't take too much to pound out the roll-pin.

You can read about my initial distributor rebuild Here.

When my plugged cat then cooked my ignition module, I was poking around in there again Here.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2009 at 4:25pm
Put in a new pickup coil and she started right up. But I gave it some throttle after it warmed up and it died. I think it might have stale gas in it. And now it won't start because my starter is weak and on the verge of dying.

So my next question....

What is involved in changing the starter on a 2.5L? I have another starter for it. Is it pretty easy?

**EDIT** Scratch that... heatshield, shims, etc, etc
I wanna go fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2009 at 5:11pm
Make sure to disconnect whatever is left of your battery.  ;)

Note the # or absence of shims.

Pull the bracket off the back that goes to the block first or it's a pig to remove after.  Install the bracket after installing the starter.

'Bout it!  Pretty straight forward.

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