New Owner 86se, few questions
Printed From: West Coast Fieros
Category: General Fiero Chat
Forum Name: General Talk about Fieros
Forum Description: Just want to chat about fieros? here's the place to make that happen.
URL: http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1916
Printed Date: 23 November 2024 at 6:22am
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Topic: New Owner 86se, few questions
Posted By: cam2510
Subject: New Owner 86se, few questions
Date Posted: 24 June 2010 at 2:44pm
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my names cam im on saltspring island going on 4 years now and just recently bought a 86se v6 4-speed 209k with fresh rebuild on motor. shown it has also performance chip, holley carb? and said to be performance rebuilt. don't get me wrong the car goes like stink but seems a little sluggish in higher rpms, runs very rich, and almost feels like the timings out(slightly unsteady acceleration, faster sometimes then others). I am no guru so my skills take me to the shop when its anything other then pull out put in thus bringing me to my questions. are these engines fairly easily tunable? in the sence that the local shop won't have issues even though suposed "performance rebuild"? when I bought was told it had sat for atleast 4 years and before that about 6 of little movement now since my ownership i have done new dist-cap&rotor + 8mm wires, clean®apped plugs, fix stereo wiring(rust short), rehung exhaust, oil&filter+flush, fuel filter, flush brakes lines, flush clutch, rebuild master clutch(leaky), front upper ball joints, rear right balljoint, new left cv boots(leaky), rear left bearing, rear brakes(stock replace), heater core, new sail panels. now I am looking at having to do the steering rack and stumbled onto the site fierostore.com and wonder about reliability anyone have any issues or only good review? I ask cause i will have to do all the parts locating myself because local parts store isnt interested at all thus fierostore.com is my first option ive seen. Now this is a new one too me so I dont know what all is needed for parts. I plan on ordering the inner+outer tierod end kit, steering rack(includes inner boots), steering stabilizer but are there any other bushing i may be over looking? im also looking at new wheels as im running on cracked&weathered 10y/o predators still got the nubbys they have sat so long unused. has anyoine ever used the site wheelfire.com? im wanting to order a set of 17"x7" 5 spoke HPO( http://www.wheelfire.com/scontent/WheelDetails.cfm?IDNumber=ruffraciong_R935_hyperblk&SKU=2753 - image )+ 215/45/17 delinte dl9100( http://www.wheelfire.com/scontent/TireDetails.cfm?IDNumber=delente444&SKU=4155 - image ) but remain unsure of the site. any reviews on the site known? and is this the proper rim+tire size mating? I do have lots of plans, id like too see 250+hp using a turbo kit in the v6 and plan to put in the koni suspension upgrade package + complete poly bushing kit and finish brakes with front oversize upgrade kit but as of right now it is my daily driver and im trying and keep her running as such pls pardon my horrible grammar |
Replies:
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 24 June 2010 at 5:03pm
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Sounds like you've replaced most of the 'aged' stuff. Rims & tires: if you get over here, go see Ryan McHolister at National Tire on River road in Delta. If you really want to ship things: www.tirerack.com The stock tune is really good (if all the sensors etc are working right!!) and there is little to be done there. Honestly, by the time you build up a turbo system (been there, done that!) in it's entirety - you could have done a stock 4.9 V8 swap ($'s wise). I'd personally just drive what you've got (after fixing the remaining safety and running issues). |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 24 June 2010 at 10:18pm
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Woah woah woah... It has a chip AND a carb? What exactly is the chip for? ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 24 June 2010 at 10:42pm
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It's a Holley throttle body, the same that every other Fiero 2.8 came with from the factory.
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 12:25am
The guy specifically said carb, and it's not like a carb and a laterally-mounted throttle body look similar.  ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 12:57am
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No, he said...
And I was explaining to him what it actually was.
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Romeo wrote:
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 6:52pm
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yea sry for confusion as mentioned im not so tech oriented, id be the brakes guy er something. thx for the advice dr.fiero, I have scheduled an appt. to finish the last of drivability issues altough id still like to know if fierostore.com is reliable atleast to order the steering rack. as for the engine I do think ill drive this 2.8l as is well mostly. Is it fairly standard to have very low accel in highend 5000rpm+? since the car has a chip is it worth considering k&n/cold air intake? for now ill c what i can do by cleaning injectors n stuff. Anyone have experience with fierostore.com(spec. suspension components) or wheelfire.com(smokin deal&free shipping??)? |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 7:37pm
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I spend.... well.... WAY too much at TFS
yearly. What'll kill ya is the shipping on something as big as a rack. You can probably expect a $100 shipping bill. |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 8:45pm
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I think you like have a K&N Filter, not a full cold-air intake, and yes, the Fieros intake doesn't breathe too well at high rpms. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 10:22pm
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Nothing wrong with a K&N - but expect no performance gain over a new stock paper one. The intake portion UP TO the throttle body has been dyno shown over and over to be well engineered and needs no improvement with a stock or slightly modded engine. You might want to look into one of Dawg's TB's and upper plenums though IF your engine has really been modded cam wise. It might be lacking in air flow (they're just barely adequate on a stock setup). |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 10:49pm
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Another great easy bolt on part is the MSD Coil for the V6 Fiero. Usually around 50-60 bucks, and performs way better in the 4000-6000rpm range over the OEM stock coil. Oh and don't forget http://www.rodneydickman.com - www.rodneydickman.com for all your parts needs I usually go there before I order from Fierostore. Fierostore is great, and have always been good to us, however Rodney goes out of his way to build better products, and really stands behind what he makes or sells. I believe he sells a complete rack rebuild kit, which is way better than any of the aftermarket racks you can buy, plus it will save you a bundle on shipping. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 26 June 2010 at 1:14pm
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thanks so much for the great info, the big problems im running into are with tracking down parts and to have someone that will ensure reliability of those parts is essential, since total cost of the vehicle is an issue i will be going through rodney to buy the rack rebuild kit(atm not listed). I talked with the gentleman out of Courtney who rebuilt the engine 4ish years ago. He said that he cant remember the car exactly since he sees about 3 fieros a year but if it was done at his shop that it would be completely tuned. being fully rocker/rollerized, racing cam, underdrive pulleys he said a few others i cant remember ..... now I ask myself is there anyway to check for such things or is it reliant on word? I have ordered in the k&n filter & msd coil plus will be ripping the tb & intake manifold off the local autowrecker's with intent to send them to dawg for modification. After that im looking for exhaust manifold to finish engine breathing, any suggestions? what about exhaust&muffler? thanks again cam. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 26 June 2010 at 1:44pm
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rite... im still looking at www.wheelfire.com for rims&tire. I looked at the tirerack.com and its no where near the deals + free shipping. BUT I can't find a real person review of the site anywhere other then on their site itself. suggestions? I am really thinking about going for it $900 for a full set at my door, can't really go wrong. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 26 June 2010 at 1:48pm
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We'd care a whole lot more about this Fiero if we could see some images of it. Don't worry about it not being perfect. It's always interesting to see the "before" pictures. [EDIT] It's not this one, is it? ...
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Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 9:52am
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no its not, i will have to take a few more pics but this is one i have. need to know a better file host tho? http://www.filefactory.com/file/b24d14g/n/32276_426115976139_558881139_5937623_4441221_n.jpg - this is me & lulu as previous owner named her http://www.filefactory.com/file/b24d14g/n/32276_426115976139 _558881139_5937623_4441221_n.jpg just click preview |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 11:22am
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This site has a built in image server. Use the button with the tree and blue up arrow. Works great. DG ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 12:50pm
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Geez, it couldn't be any easier to post images here. As Dawg pointed out, simply click on the icon with the tree and the "up" arrow to upload and post images right off your hard drive.
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(Just make sure the JPG file size is no larger than 150 KB, and try to keep each image no wider than 800 pixels.)Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 12:55pm
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As long as they're no more than 125Kb ! |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 12:57pm
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Oh yeah? Take another look, John!
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Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 1:00pm
| I see! Got jacked to 150kb. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 1:02pm
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That's right. Spare no expense, we're big time now!
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Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 29 June 2010 at 5:16pm
that's kinda embarrassing   there is my first vandalism attack, key to the trunk. and the only other real damage minus the crappy front bumper is the crack in side skirt drivers side.     very clean interior, typical sun expanded rubber on the console though  pretty and red but dirty... dirtiest engine compartment i have ever seen only takes a few hours on the road |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 29 June 2010 at 7:27pm
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Run 0W-20 for a little while and watch how dirty in gets post blow-by. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 June 2010 at 8:31pm
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... ???
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Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 29 June 2010 at 9:26pm
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Patrick....he's been sniffin' glue again hasn't he? DG
------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 June 2010 at 9:41pm
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Something about that boy just isn't quite right.
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 29 June 2010 at 10:44pm
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LOL, though, if you did run 0w20 in a Fiero, for any lenght of time, the engine bay would look like a grease pit in short order, due to both compression blow by from to thin of oil and oil leakage from every seal in the motor. (unless the motor was a fresh rebuild) ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 4:30pm
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so that would test the rebuild status then? would it really harm the motor? right now 10w30 every 3000k its dark but not black and lost about a half litre depending on how hard im hammering on it this last one was the first with a small amount of lucas synthetic stabiliser and only second change since ownership. I have to do a oil change next month but im going on a trip should i wait till after im back? |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 4:56pm
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Don't do it! Tristan (Romeo) was just kidding around, but perhaps he should not make jokes like this to someone who's new here and who might take the comments literally. Bad Tristan, bad...
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 7:05pm
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Maybe I should have stated what I said a bit diffrently too, 0-20 will kill a Fiero engine. If you are burning 1/2 liter of oil per 3000k and it is comming out dirty, (not black, but not clean looking) I would really be hesitant on what was done as to a rebuild. Your first check to see a basic upgrade is the rockers, remove the oil fill cap and peak in the hole, or feel in the hole for the rocker arm, a stock cheap rocker will have a smooth side at the tip area, a better roller tip or full roller rocker will have a shaft at the very least in the tip and a full roller will have a shaft in the side as well. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 5:50am
| it has the shaft in tip don't feel anything in the side but still has a smooth side full length, doesn't seem clean (finger came out black) inside but checked the oil and since the Lucas was added (try recondition gaskets&seals)its lost only 1/4 liter oil per 3000 km. also talked with previous owner and he says the engine probably has some premature wear due to not being conditioned yearly after sitting for 10 (also sounded like he wanted out of the conversation fairly badly so might be a sign of deceit). Dunno what to think of this car better yet the guy who sold it to me. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 10:07am
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There are a few honest people, but realistically, you can't believe anything you're told by the seller of a car. I'm always dubious of claims, for example, of a "new" clutch. So many used cars on the market (with manual trannys) are advertised as having a "new" clutch. When you dig a little deeper you find out that the clutch was indeed "new"... five years ago (or longer)! Kind of similar to the following...
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 10:32am
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Well if she has roller tip rockers then you know at least the top end of the engine was done at some point, the rockers are either 1.52 or 1.60 ration. The 1.6's let the engine breath a bit better as well. I would do a cranking compression test on the 3 trunk side plugs and see what you get. There are 3 off the shelf options for pistons for the 2.8 8.5-1 8.9-1 and 12.5-1 chances are you have the 8.9's and with a bit of decking on the heads should net you a 190psi cranking compression, assuming the rings are good. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 11:28am
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Dude, there's a 12.5:1 piston for the Fiero? Is it like a GM racing part? ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 1:17pm
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Federal Mogul makes the piston. Oddly enough it was the same price as the 8.9-1 pistons. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 1:46pm
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That's pretty sick. 94-octane, or is it only compatable with a straight 100+ octane? ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 1:51pm
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Yeah, that's probably how well it would run on pump gas.
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 3:58pm
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Na 12.5 is doable for pump gas with the correct timing, I usually figure 13 is the tipping point. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 5:53pm
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Crazy talk. I would've assumed that would've been race fuel for sure. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 13 August 2010 at 12:22pm
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what a peice of work this has turned out to be so far! -replaced rack twice now, this one seems to be holding -nearly all bushings front and back -found a crack in the front of block(welded&painted) -crack in the rear block not recent but after painting(seeping coolant) we took her on a trip through lower bc -blew a lower balljoint again(may have been faulty but I think it was too heavy of a load) -recharged a/c actually blew cold for 100km then started to make such a racket i was scaring people -got discuraged on keeping track of exact oil consumption but it was a little over 2 litres going van - southern bc - christina lake - jasper - prince george - van after tomorrow i believe that I should have only a few select bushing to replace besides the engine&tranny mounts with everything in the front and rear being new except springs. nevermind ive had to replace parts that i have reciepts from previous owner for! what a prize this car has turned out to be!!! and only more problems to come! big question whats the easiest and most cost efficient engine swap for power and economy? its only a matter of time before this engine burns itself out now so im forced to jump into the part i hoped to leave for a few years atleast. id like to try achieve a decent amount of power without having to worry about destroying anything else. |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 13 August 2010 at 4:22pm
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My vote is 3.4L motor. To my knowledge, it's the biggest motor available that can use the stock intake and ignition system. Easy swap with more than enough power for most regular people. DG ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 13 August 2010 at 6:02pm
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Sorry to hear that the "fresh rebuild" wasn't so fresh, or so rebuilt after all.
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Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 15 August 2010 at 9:25am
so the 3.4 it is.... though i am not a normal person since I enjoy things like a lowered 3cyl sprint on stock donut tires thus you can feel that tire roll!!! is a stroked 2.8l same as a 3.4l from the late 80's? what would be the most power id hope to see? see the funniest thing is the previous owner actually had no idea, brought him over showed him the front an rear cracks and he lost it!!! He got so angry i was actually walking around the car away from him. All in all we have agreement that when the time comes for the new block he is doing the labor at no charge and until then he is going to make the re-builders life hell. yay for stout fiery french people. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 15 August 2010 at 9:37am
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a 'real' 3.4 is more or less (though there's more to it) a bored and stroked 2.8L |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 15 August 2010 at 9:39am
If I'm not mistaken, the 3.4 does have it's own intake system, seperate than that of the Fiero, does it not? A more bulbous, smooth looking intake... ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 15 August 2010 at 9:43am
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I think that's the aluminum head 3.4 that has the funky intake. There's an iron head 3.4 that's a "drop in" replacement for the 2.8 (though it's hard to find). Got used in FWD mini vans, and possibly other applications. You'd still want to swap over the upper exterior Fiero bits just to keep it looking right (or use the other parts which worked better!). |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 15 August 2010 at 10:58am
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The 3.4 you want is from the Camaro the front wheel drive 3.4 is a lower compression version and has less power. I have the Dyno slips here from a recent chassie dyno of a 3.4 Camaro I belive you can expect 190hp from a 3.4 in a Fiero. You use all the stock Fiero parts intake and such on the 3.4 it is a direct swap over. Here is info copied from the Fiero Factory's website. We had a drill guide plate manufactured that allows drilling and tapping starter mounting holes on an assembled 3.4 longblock. After that it is simple to redress it with all the Fiero V6 parts so that it looks EXACTLY like the original engine. The 3.4's have a plug where the distributor installs (even TDC, but head is in the way, tried that to see if we could run TDC with Fiero computer). Just remove plug, install distributor, and you'll find the distributor hold down bolt hole is even threaded! There are a few easy bracket modifications to do or that we furnish. The 3.4 needed is used in 93-95 Camaro's and Firebird's. It is also available new from GM Performance as a replacement for S-10 and Blazer. Larger flow rate injectors have to be used and don't come with the "crate" engine. These would have to be purchased separately. They will come with engines pulled from wrecked cars.. Must use the 3.4 injectors, or 305 chevy (both will "clip" to the Fiero fuel rail). We also use an adjustable fuel regulator to be on the safe side. Have found different engines (depending on cam and exhaust headers) like different pressures. There are a few other minor mods as well as the major one of changing starter sides. We are charging $450 to modify the block. If you are auto, part of the 3.4 needs to be cutaway to clear the trans. Not necessary for std trans. The bolt hole that takes the bolt from the pass side, lowest bellhousing one toward the trunk, is threaded in the 3.4 and needs to be drilled smooth. The oil pressure sensor tube needs an adapter, 3.4 blocks are minus one of the bosses that the engine shock mounts to. That boss is also where the a/c adjusting bracket bolts. Cure is: shock mount bracket with bolt welded from the back to become a stud. 88's will then need 85-87 a/c bracket. A modified 85-87 front engine mount bracket must be used on the 88 engine cradle if you use the 3.4 oil pan. 87-88 timing covers will work with 3.4 pan, otherwise use cover and pan from 85-86 2.8. 3.4 dampner needs to aligned with the 2.8, and new timing mark cut. Lower bellhousing bolt hole (trans side) is threaded on 3.4. Drill out threads for bolt coming from opposite direction to transaxle. Reducer bushing necessary for oil sensor tube. Clip wires from 3.4 cam and crank sensor and leave installed, is easiest way to plug these holes. (crate engines come with plugs) Remove 3.4 oil cooler, and install 2.8 filter adapter. 3.4's need neutrally balanced flexplate/flywheel which 88 2.8's already have. A 4-5 lb heavier flywheel available for 3.4TDC from Chev for about 1/3 the cost of 88 Fiero. (They are identical except for weight). An 87-88 Fiero timing chain cover will work with the 3.4 oil pan. You would need to use both your 85 or 86 pan and cover, as a set. It also requires a Fiero water pump instead of the 3.4's. Most folks want a new water pump installed, plugs, wires, belts, maybe a clutch at this time. Since the cost of transferring all the old parts is included, there is no further labor charge if they are new parts, just the cost of any new parts you might want/need. Can't give an exact price, since it would depend on you, and the purchase cost of the 3.4 ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 15 August 2010 at 11:51am
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Ok I went ahead and posted the dyno information here http://westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2021 - http://westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2021 ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 1:42pm
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thanks for all the great info, your a tremendous help. is it just me or do these vehicles suspension break easy? I took off did a little 90degree kick and stick to the left(impossible to turn & go without kicking out, starting to think its a sign of a bigger problem) the car rocked a bit though it didn't feel bad now the steering feels soft to the right. even after all the work ive been doing it still wonders on the road, feels like a pushsteer at all times yet it was just aligned. am i trying to achieve something that isn't possible by wanting a car that will drive straight down the road(besides bumps)? if so Ive already waisted twice what the car cost me and gotten nowhere. I haven't even tried to have fun yet its just too sketchy! I wish i went to the last meet just to get an idea of what im getting into! |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 1:57pm
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??? Not really sure what you mean. If you want advice on a problem, speak in terms we can all understand.
No, these cars handle like they're on rails when they're maintained properly.
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Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 3:52pm
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I'm voting you let someone who's owned one for a while drive your car. It really sounds like you're not sure what to expect. One of my adages: If you don't know where you're going, it's really hard to navigate there. |
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 4:49pm
I had the same problem with the rear suspension wondering, we're lucky to have experts members Dawg, Patrick, Capt and Clynt that helped me with that problem, now it rides like it's on rails again.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:13pm
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Thanks for the compliment, John. I'm hardly an "expert". If anything, I'm persistent. I just chip away at a problem until it's resolved, whether it's cars or relationships.
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:45pm
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LOL!! Yeah Patty, that sounds about right... ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:54pm
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yes dr.fiero your right im not sure what to expect though what i am sure of is where i want to go. it drove better when first purchased and its been a battle fixing everything since trying to get back to "normal". plus if its supposed to handle like its on rails something is still completely messed up with mine! what I mean by the kick and go is when i try accelerate from a stop and turn into traffic per say one tire will always spin and cause a quick kick as i straighten the wheel. I have noticed it only kick to the left when turning right it seems like its too soft. I would really love to have someone with a little knowledge of these vehicles tell me what they think of her but I am now afraid of what they are going to say! car-2-lo what ended up being your problem, was it a costly fix? |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 6:06pm
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Where are you located?
If you want to bring it over to my place during the day I'll take you for a drive and let you know what's what. |
Posted By: cam2510
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 1:12pm
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I am on saltspring, just a ferry ride away from van vic or crofton. ya that sounds like a good idea, from my knowledge you would be the only person with experience specific to fiero's to even look at the car never mind drive it! I did just finish a 2 week vacation so my days off aren't for another week or so if that's still cool. Just need to know how to find you, I mean literally cause im from a small town even Nanaimo was confusing to me the first time. I'd probably be best to go buy a gps save myself the frustrations. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 1:17pm
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I'm in North Delta. Google maps is your friend. When you're ready to head over to the big dirt pile (mainland!) PM or email me and I'll get you some details. Leave me a ph# and I can call you too (Magic Jack - free LD). |
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 20 August 2010 at 9:36am
LOOSE NUTS... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFMLyZ23Wc&feature=channel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFMLyZ23Wc&feature=channel |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 20 August 2010 at 9:52am
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