Ecotec Build
Printed From: West Coast Fieros
Category: Technical Topics Forum
Forum Name: Build Threads
Forum Description: A Place to post step by step build threads.
URL: http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2216
Printed Date: 22 November 2024 at 7:06pm
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Topic: Ecotec Build
Posted By: Medic
Subject: Ecotec Build
Date Posted: 06 December 2010 at 9:21am
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Now that this car is in the building or rebuilding stage it is time to ask a few questions. The clutch had or has hydraulic issues according to the previous owner/builder. It uses the sunbird Getrag trans(hence the sunbird slave), Darcy said the trans would "lock up" and not change gears (while using the clutch) when it was hot....let it cool down and it worked again. I find this a very odd statement as the clutch is a simple hydraulic system and I don't see how heat would have an affect on it.Especially since it's not close to a heat generating part like a manifold etc.. They apparently tried the Fiero and sunbird master with no success. To me, Sounds like air getting into the system or a trans issue? ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Replies:
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 06 December 2010 at 2:26pm
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"lock up" is a rather ambiguous phrase to use in regards to this problem. What actually locks up? If it's just a matter of not being able to disengage the clutch when the engine is hot and running, what happens when the engine is turned off? Can the gears not then be changed? If the gears can be changed with the engine not running (with or without the clutch), I'd say it's a "bleeding" problem - air in the hydraulics. This of course is also dependent on a properly functioning master/slave cylinder, non-bent clutch pedal, non-cracked/broken clutch lever/fork, non-binding throwout bearing. If the gears can't be changed while the engine is not running, then it could be a shifter problem, shifter cable adjustment, or messed up tranny.
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Medic wrote:Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 07 December 2010 at 3:00am
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Ambiguous yes, but then Darcy does not know a lot about the mechanics of cars. He would have to change gears then re-start the car in the desired gear. Sounds like it was a hydro problem, and not a trans issue as the trans shifted when the car was off. I did find a bent clutch pedal that I replaced yesterday and that may have compounded the issue, it may have binded.  I will know more by the weekend when I get the new master in and working.------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 09 December 2010 at 1:56pm
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I got the clutch working today and I now know what they were talking about. If you press the clutch slowly it goes all the way to the floor and you can hear the slave pushing the pressure plate. If you press the clutch quickly the pedal stops approx halfway. return it to the top and press slow and it works again, press quickly and it will stop and you cannot press it down to the floor. This is what he meant by "lock". This is very odd, I have never experienced this before. It happened with both (new) masters installed. It looks like something is binding in the slave/pressure plate/throwout bearing. Unfortunately to get to the slave you have to split the engine tranny. Looks like the engine has to come out. The slave is also $300 bills. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 09 December 2010 at 3:07pm
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The combination of bent pedal and the symptoms you're describing would lead me to believe the wrong push rod was installed. If the push rod is too short, you'll hit the snap ring and "lock". Going slow might allow the slave to leak past the seal if it had a bad seal but when pushing fast the cup expands right away. Just a guess there. But yes, I would say you need to get to the slave for sure. The Dawg ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 09 December 2010 at 7:48pm
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I hope you've been over at Pennock's. You can find a ton of info on Ecotec swaps http://www.fierosearch.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?start=1&forum=-1&where=SUB&SearchQuery=ecotec&Action=DoSearch&datesort=D - There . The first thread I looked at http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000029.html - Here , the guy was showing how he altered the clutch slave. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 09 December 2010 at 9:37pm
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Yep, spent alot of time on that site. Good info and a few great swaps. Love the turbo ecotec. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 10 December 2010 at 8:10am
*Cough Cough EATON M80 SUPERCHARGER IS BETTER Cough* ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 10 December 2010 at 10:55am
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Define better...... S/C have their limitations. T/C are capable of a lot more power. It depends on what you are after in terms of performance. Plus for the Ecotec the S/C hangs off the intake side of the engine making clearance an issue in the fiero. Even GM went to T/C from S/C in their Cobalt SS. The cobalt now produces much more power and is capable of 400 hp with minor mods. You couldn't do that in the S/C cars. I like both options but am leaning to the turbo. I was leaning towards a T3/4 but picked up a T25 which should see gains of 60-70% and a very fast spool up with good low rpm torque. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 11 December 2010 at 12:12pm
The trans is now out to get to the slave and see what is going on. Sometimes GM amazes me.....who was the engineer that designed a slave cylinder that goes inside the trans and is one piece with the throw out bearing?  That's a problem just waiting to happen.Not sure if it's the issue or not. Nothing seems obvious but it is a little rough moving in and out.Under pressure it may bind. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 13 December 2010 at 11:12am
While awaiting the clutch kit from California it was time to tackle the shifter issue. The shifter as installed was shifting backwards, that is...reverse and first were on the wrong side. First and second on the far right and reverse and fifth on the left. The shifter selector needed to be reversed. I've seen guys modify the Fiero shifter but then the console no longer fits due to a long shifter rod sticking up and a new taller console has to be built which looks odd and apparently the Sunfire shifter does not work so well in a Fiero... So.... Here's how I did it......... The shifter was originally connected to the lower ball(which can be seen poking through the new bracket). With a new arm attached and the use of a Heim Joint the pivot point was moved the the other end thereby reversing the shift selector pattern. A pull now moves the selector rod down instead of up.  The bracket etc is still a little rough and in need of completion but hooked up to the shifter it now works as it should with the side to side motion, No rubbing and no touching. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 13 December 2010 at 11:39am
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Way to go. Make sure you weld a gusset in there to stop any flex. It doesn't seem like there is a lot of pressure I know but over time, after 10 billion shifts, cracks can develop. Good creative solution, I like. The Dawg ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 13 December 2010 at 12:06pm
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Absolutely, It needs support. It is in the "will it work" phase right now. As it is, there's a little flex, but it needs to be solid and over engineered to be reliable. Thanks for the advice.  ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 13 December 2010 at 12:53pm
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WOW Steve, you have came a long way from the time when Parker and I helped you redo the top end on your 86GT. Congrats. When you and I were talking about you buying this thing, I honestly had no idea that you were able to do this kind of stuff, so when you said you bought it, I was rather worried that you were in over your head. I am glad to see I was sadly mistaken. So again, Congratulations.
David ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 13 December 2010 at 1:36pm
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Steve's not just a Medic... he's now a Fiero Medic. Glad to see this project moving along!
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 13 December 2010 at 6:39pm
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Thank goodness you didn't get frustrated and gut it, that's a fantastic little set-up. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 15 December 2010 at 11:44am
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Picked up one of these at a great price......couldn't pass it up........ Includes everything needed except intercooler rad. M62 Eaton.  ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 15 December 2010 at 12:32pm
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I know I'm really jumping ahead here, but it would be great in the spring/summer to see this baby out on the autocross track!
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 15 December 2010 at 12:44pm
WOW, that Supercharger is going to sound great there 
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 15 December 2010 at 7:36pm
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Hehehe. I am SO stoked you went with the supercharger. As for the intercooler, we have an EcoBoosted Lincoln at school... I wonder if anyone would notice if it's intercooler went missing? Kidding!
------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 12:00pm
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Found an intercooler for you. It actually goes a little past the bottom of that chrome bumper. It's larger in every dimension than the Fiero's entire radiator. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 1:36pm
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I got the trans back in today with the new clutch/pressure plate and throwout bearing/slave cylinder. The clutch does not seem to bind so far. Keeping fingers crossed that it is fixed. Hopefully it will be roadworthy soon. ............ Did I mention it needs a provincial inspection? Darcy spent all that money and never registered it in BC.........  ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 27 March 2011 at 4:46pm
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Does anybody want to buy a Ecotec Fiero? I cannot get the car to start and can't find any obvious problems. I put in a new clutch and now it's a no start. My weak point is wiring and it frustrates the hell out of me. Worked on it today and it almost started but no luck. When I worked on the shifter I pulled out the console and a load of wiring was hidden behind it, including the sunfire ignition with a switch attached to it. Not sure if the problem lies somewhere in the mess of wires or somewhere else.....................did I say I was frustrated.......... ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 9:54am
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What do you mean when you say it doesn't start? It doesn't crank, or it doesn't combust? If it doesn't crank, I'd first check to see if there's a problem with ground or power to the starter (If it's accessible, haven't seen the Ecotec), then move up to both ignition switches, then to the starter relay. If it doesn't light, you know it's a problem with fuel, air or fire, and can then check each system (Or hook it up to a scan-tool) to see which one it is. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: clynt
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 11:24am
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what do you mean by it almost started? do you have spark? do you have any ether? has patrick had anything to do with it? |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 12:03pm
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It cranks over but does not combust. Plugs look wet when removed. Appears to be a spark issue. Not sure how to rectify the issue. Which scan tool is recommended? ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: clynt
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 12:08pm
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i think a scantool only works on a running car.. i use autoxray they are cheap on ebay can you run a testlight thru coils for power? |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 1:06pm
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With the key on there is power to the coil. Does not fire with ether. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: clynt
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 1:17pm
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hot wire it .. sorry misread..is it a single coil or a pac? |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 1:22pm
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Removed the coilpack and removed the rubber boots from the spark plugs. Cranked it over and there is no spark between the electrode and the valve cover. Will check the grounding again to see if that is the problem. The coilpack tests positive for power so it should be sparking. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: clynt
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 1:44pm
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so it ran before.. check power to computer. computer controls grounding to plugs? or is there a separate moduel? |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 1:53pm
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Yes ran before I took out the trans and replaced the clutch. Removed a few ground wires in the process but put back with the re install. Seperate ICM I believe. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 28 March 2011 at 2:35pm
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Yes, you will have a seperate ICM but that will be networked in to the PCM. Put the vehicle in Run, start up a scan-tool and it will tell you if there's a communications error (ICM) or not. It should also be noted that if the ICM can't find a crank or cam signal, it wont bother trying to fire either the injectors or the spark, so that's also something to consider. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 3:03pm
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If anyone is a wiring guru and would like to make a few bucks helping me figure out why this thing isn't firing let me know, I could use a lesson on troubleshooting wiring problems.
------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 3:32pm
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Know anyone with AllData or Mitchell On Demand? Those will have all the wiring diagrams, which could drastically aide you in figuring this out. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 5:04pm
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Unfortunately no I don't. That's why I am offering to pay someone to help me out. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 8:35am
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I'd be happy to help you out... but most (all?)of it will have to be remotely done unless it turns out you live within 5 min's of my place. :) I assume you have a reasonable arsenal of weapons like a test light, decent meter, and basic knowledge of electronics? |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 6:50pm
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I might be persuaded to be the point man here. Especially if John is willing to add some tech support. I would love to see this thing going! PM sent. The Dawg ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 7:26pm
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I have a test light, a meter and a basic knowledge... yes. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 7:33pm
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OK... Obviously the harness on the car has been altered. A lot. :) What's what? I'll assume the "X" car was used as a donor, then grafted onto the Fiero. What's "X" (year, make, model - hopefully someone told you!). |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 10:10pm
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2003 Olds Alero engine. (Same as Sunfire, Cavalier Grand Am I assume) 2.2 ltr L61 with a Sunfire 5 spd trans. ECM Grafted in behind the console to the Fiero wiring. Not sure but ICM must be from the same car.
------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 10:13pm
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The Alero ignition is intact with the wiring and a small on/off switch wired to it to override the ant-theft. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 11 April 2011 at 6:15am
Ok, well here's a wiring diagram: Did you have the starter out? Might have whacked the crank position sensor. If you have a scope, you could back probe at the ECM, and see what the signal from the CPS is. Check for power and ground at A & E on the ICM. Make sure the block is still well grounded (maybe a strap got removed during the last fix?). That's a start anyhow - LMK what you find. (where are you anyhow? I have a handheld scope meter) |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 11 April 2011 at 8:29pm
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Update for the masses.... spent over an hour on the phone with 'im, and think we've narrowed it WAY down. More updates to follow I'm sure. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 12 April 2011 at 8:26am
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Yes, much valuable info gained in the phone conversation. Will start with the basics like grounding the car properly to rule that out as the obvious problem. Fingers crossed. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 12 April 2011 at 6:05pm
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Alright Steve! Make it happen. The Dawg ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 11:28am
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I did all the recommended fixes as per the Doctors preliminary orders and the car is still a no fire. Spins the engine much faster than before but still a no start with ether. Good constant Power to the ICM but I am thinking there is no spark reaching the plugs and possibly no injector pulse. Will replace the Crank sensor as it is cheap and can rule it out. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 11:40am
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See if the signal is reaching the ECM before you just toss one in. If it
does turn out to be a connector or wiring issue, you'll be chasing your tail in circles. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 12:40pm
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Good news, I pulled the connector/wires off the CKP and removed the black tape covering the splice. One of the wires had come off inside. Resoldered it and the car now fires. It runs for a couple seconds then it dies. on the right track..............
------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 2:03pm
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Hm. Do you happen to know if there's any codes? That could help point you in the right direction for chasing down the remaining fault(s). ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 3:29pm
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Check that passkey bypass module. That sounds like the security system kicking in.
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Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 5:34pm
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That was the first thing that came to mind. The are part of the BCM and apparently pretty troublesome and give a lot of grief. There are a couple bypass options out there. Not sure how it works in conjunction with the fireo ignition though. I do get a "chime" when I put the key in, it speeds up after a few seconds. There is a process to reset it but I haven't had much luck with that so far. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 1:00am
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You know, I've read about all sorts of trouble people have had with trying to retrofit stock ECM's to their new car bodies. If I ever go beyond a 3.4L and need to change out the stock ECM I'm going to take a good long look at MegaSquirt. Seems to me that you would have the most flexability. Sounds like you're getting close anyway. The Dawg ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 9:30am
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Yeah, Megasquirt, XFi an Holley Fuel Injection are all very adaptable, and best of all, "tune themselves" so you don't need to program them either. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 15 April 2011 at 2:02pm
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It's Alive! The BCM must have reset itself. I had it for a burn down the road today. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 15 April 2011 at 3:49pm
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Awesome!
Amazing how much beter they work when they have power and ground huh? |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 15 April 2011 at 5:05pm
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Yes and it helps if the cks is hooked up.
------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 15 April 2011 at 7:19pm
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How about a congratulatory burn out?....:) Does this mean we'll see it at a meeting soon? The Dawg ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 15 April 2011 at 8:54pm
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Probably not, it needs a provincial inspection so everything will have to be working to pass. The car is real low and the front wheels rub. The speedo,tach,oil pressure,temp (and of course the e-brake) do not work. The shifter now works properly and the clutch problem is solved. I will need to find a good guy to do the inspection. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 19 April 2011 at 12:32pm
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Now the job of getting the car to the prov inspection stage. Fuel and volts work but I need to get the speedo and tach working. Is this a pain in the neck? They obviously work different than most GM cars. should I just go with aftermarket gauges? I may try the Alero gauges if I can fab them into the dash somehow. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 19 April 2011 at 12:57pm
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The speedo is hooked to the transmission via a speed sensor. If you're using a stock tranny then no problem. Otherwise, you might need to get a converter to massage the existing signal of whatever tranny you have. Not hard to do. The Tach hooks to the coil circuit typically. There is an easy way to make the Tach adjustable. You simply need a multi turn pot and some soldering skills. The Dawg ------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 9:00pm
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Will this speedo work? It is programable so it should work.......... http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3117&s id=11 Plus it looks cool. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 9:53pm
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Should - but a dakota digital box will also convert the signal, and let you keep your stock gauges. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 4:41pm
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I got the Dakota box and it appears it has a setting for this type of setup. (#3 Convert a high-speed signal found on newer GM transmissions down to a low speed signal to run a speedometer, cruise control, or fuel injection computer. ) I have 2 sensor wires both from the speed sensor , but I only need one for the box. There is the purple/white and the yellow. Which one do I use? I think it is the yellow if the wiring schematics are correct it appears to go to the sensor input. Anyone done this before? ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 5:59pm
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The VSS generates an A/C signal doesn't it? If so, you need both wires to see the whole wave. I could be wrong. ;) If it's a square wave, and one side is referenced to ground, then... yeah... one wire of the VSS could be grounded, and the other fed into the Dakota box (don't confuse it with your Lakota box though, or an elderly native gentleman will come and talk to you about your muscle aches). Look on the GM diagrams, and see if they're marked VSS hi/low. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 6:09pm
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Purple/white is low and Yellow is high according to one diagram. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 9:41pm
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Oh my god... Craker, that was the worst joke in the history of... Ever. I think, in the end, John's right. Typically (Read: Stock) both halves of the signal are used, as the VSS is a AC voltage generator... ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 10:27pm
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On the Fiero tranny it is - but since he's got a late model one - I'm really not sure what they output. If it's a hall effect, it'll be a square wave (I think). |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 30 April 2011 at 12:07am
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All of them are AC as they come out. If it has a module on it, that'll convert the signal to a DC frequency signal, but every one of them that I've seen are two wires in, one wire out. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 30 April 2011 at 7:19am
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From the GM service manual; The vehicle speed sensor generates a signal that indicates the speed of the vehicle.The signal produced is a sine wave, which is processed into a square wave by the Vehicle Speed Sensor Buffer to supply inputs to the Speedometer, Electronic Control Module and Cruise Control. The frequency of the AC voltage coming from this coil depends on the vehicle's speed. As the speed increases, so does the number of voltage pulses per second. The Vehicle Speed Sensor Buffer takes the sensor/voltage pulses from the Sensor, through the PPLIWHT and YEL wires, and uses them to close a Solid State output switch. The output terminal is switched to ground at a rate that is proportional to the speed of the car. The output to the ECM and Cruise Control is switched at 2000 pulses per mile after it has been through a "divide by two circuit" in the ECM. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 30 April 2011 at 7:45am
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Ok! Then there's your answer. Sine wave output. Gets converted to the aforementioned square wave up stream.... You could TRY grounding the purple, and see if you get a sine wave (a/c) between yellow and ground. If so, then stuff the yellow into the dakota box (I'd guess they're referencing to ground for it's input). |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 30 April 2011 at 9:31am
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I agree, that's just what I was thinking. That's right, there is a (common)ground, then there's the ground for the VSS sensor. I will try the Yellow for the sensor and Purple for the ground and see if it works. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 01 May 2011 at 8:08am
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Here's an audio clip of the Ecotec. uploads/Medic/2011-05-01_080758_Ecotec_Sound.rar - 2011-05-01_080758_Ecotec_Sound.rar ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 01 May 2011 at 9:30pm
It's nice, but you need to crack that throttle. Idle's nice - redline's better.  ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Medic
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 6:03am
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Ok,ok, I'll do a proper recording and give it a litle juice. Just for you. ------------- 88 GT Northstar 6 Spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 12:59pm
Tee hee. You're the best.  ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |