Still keeping the Fiero
Printed From: West Coast Fieros
Category: General Car Chat (Not Fiero Specific)
Forum Name: Car Talk thats not a Fiero
Forum Description: If your car is not a Fiero and you are not part of the PPPCC and you need to bring something up, this is the place for it.
URL: http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2242
Printed Date: 22 November 2024 at 3:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Still keeping the Fiero
Posted By: Fiero308
Subject: Still keeping the Fiero
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 12:22pm
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Well I finally had it with the Real Ferrari. I'm going
to sell the damn thing (offers anyone?). I am of course keeping the 308 replica Dr. Fiero is working on. Anyway to satisfy "she who must not be named" I bought a 2006 Chrysler 300c SRT8. 4 door reliable domestic car for the wife. 425hp rwd for me. There is a huge amount of aftermarket stuff for this car which I plan to make use off. Anyway getting to the point of this thread. I want to Supercharge or Turbocharge the car. There are many bolt on kits for this car either way. The question is.....Which is better turbo or supercharging wrt geting through Aircare? It would seem to me that turbo charging might be the way to go since I could easily change the levels of boost (no pulleys to change)so that when I show up at Aircare I could use a Diablosport Predator to return the car to a stock tune, lower the boost to zero and pass the test Thoughts anyone? |
Replies:
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 1:06pm
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Why even ask, sounds like you have already made up your mind going Turbo 
A Supercharger looks cooler 
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Posted By: Fiero308
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 1:30pm
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No I haven't made up my mind at all. Its just with the
very small amount of automotive knowledge I possess that turbo seems the way to go. Superchargers are usually easier to install and as you say look cooler but I don't know enough to make an informed decision, hence the post. By the way the pictures I uploaded didn't upload and they were funny too. Anyone know what I did wrong? |
Posted By: beken
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 1:31pm
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Tough call.
Based on experience with MINIs, most of the motorheads like the supercharged car better than the turbocharged ones. The supercharged cars have turned out to be easier to work on, but that may be because BMW tightened their grip on the turbo cars with their computer controls. The turbo cars make better horsepower out of the box. The supercharged are easier to "upgrade" to make better horsepower than the turbocharged cars. I suspect the main reason MINIs became turbocharged was because of better fuel efficiency and probably better emissions. General consensus amongst MINI people is the supercharged cars have been more fun to drive and easier to "tune". But the supercharged cars, other than the timing change issue, have had better engine reliability. Not sure how that would relate the a 300C. I do, however like the fact that a supercharged car doesn't generally need a warm-up and cool down period when starting up or finishing a long drive. Turbo cars do to make sure the oils are properly circulated in the booster unit itself. -------------  Beken (aka Ken) - bekentech@westcoastfieros.com Original and still the owner of an 85SE 2M6 4spd |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 1:46pm
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Okay, I'm officially confused by all the references to "supercharged".
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beken wrote:Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 1:48pm
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No idea. Hugh, if you wish you can email them to me and I'll post them for you.
Okay, I'll start the bidding at 50 bucks, and that's only because it would look nice parked beside the house.
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 2:06pm
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Either form of boost wont have any effect what-so-ever in aircare, so long as you're staying out of boost. Unless the fool dynoing the car has it pinned, that wont be an issue for either supercharging or turbocharging. For personality and daily-driving, I would suggest the supercharger. For raw power figures I would assume the turbo might pump a higher dyno chart. But as Johnny Boy said, a supercharger is waaaay more delightful. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Fiero308
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 2:10pm
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That is what I wanted to know. Which system is easier to
adjust boost levels once its installed? Is it an automatic fail to add a supercharger/turbocharger to a car? Hugh |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 4:09pm
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Here you go Hugh. If you (or a forum moderator) can copy and paste these images into your first post, I'll delete the images here.
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 4:15pm
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Hugh,Hugh, you have Turbo SUPERCAR toy now, why are you trying to hot rod your cheap (daily driver) domestic car
As a daily driver you should have something classy BENZ or BEAMER 
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Posted By: Fiero308
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 4:44pm
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Thanks Patrick I still can't do it lets see if one of the
moderators can do it. WRT Car-2-Lo's comment I figure he should know by now that I have no class (ask my wife!!) and a benz or Bimmer would be inappropriate 
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 7:04pm
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Both systems will have a bypass or wastegate which can be programmed for different boost levels, and from the ICBC/Aircare website: "No modification may be performed which will negatively impact emissions from a vehicle. For example, one cannot take a fuel injected inline-four and drop in a carberated V8." Now, in theory this means both supercharging and turbocharging are off-limits. In practice? You'll be fine, boost shouldn't even come in to play at Aircare. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: marcelvdgn
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 11:01pm
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60 bucks ------------- Marcel 86SE V6 Auto 85SE V6 Auto 85 2m4 soon to be sleeper 3.8sc 5 speed |
Posted By: Fiero308
Date Posted: 29 December 2010 at 11:13pm
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All right Romeo I feel a lot better. Now I need to sell
the Ferrari to pay for all this 
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 12:42am
Why not just become a professional lottery winner instead? That's my life-plan.  ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 2:32am
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I agree. They never rev the car high enough to get any serious boost. Besides, if the engine is set up right, you shouldn't be polluting much more anyway I don't think. My cousin back East had a Ferrari like yours and had nothing but trouble with it. He bought it because it had been in storage for over 10 years and he thought it would be mint. Well it did look nice after some detailing alright. But because it hadn't been running for so long and the dumb sh*t basically jumped into it and drove off without any servicing it died on the freeway on his way home. It cost him $25,000 to get it road worthy again. Well that was just the beginning. Around every corner he was spending more and more. Finally he snapped the timing belt doing 210 on the Interstate in Delaware. Had to trailer it home. I could go on......:) He put a used motor in it and said goodbye. The Dawg
------------- You dream it up....I'll make it |
Posted By: beken
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 3:32pm
Yah...I'm old and the brain finger sync doesn't work like it used to. Okay, I've gone and fixed it. The supercharged cars are easier to upgrade (in horsepower) than the turbo ones. In the case of MINIs, that's because the wastegate (turbocharged) is not adjustable. Lots of things to consider. If you have an adjustable wastegate for the turbocharger, you need to make sure your ECU can handle the change in boost. The same with supercharged cars. Except you manipulate boost by changing the pulley. There is no wastegate in supercharged cars. If you decide you want to boost your engine, I would highly recommend you use an intercooler to bring down the temperature of your intake air. boosting your engine intake for a modern engine should not increase your emmisions. The engine ECU should take care of that. ------------- Beken (aka Ken) - bekentech@westcoastfieros.com Original and still the owner of an 85SE 2M6 4spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 5:38pm
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Ken, if I'm not mistaken there is a wastegate in the Supercharged Minis, is there not? I believe it pumps any pressure above the throttle blade and below the supercharger out to atmosphere, so that when you're engine braking, you arn't pumping alot of air against a shut throttle blade... You are completely right about the tuning, Ken. In fact, as silly as it sounds, vehicles' ECUs prefer supercharging because the engine isn't trying to adapt to a constantly changing MAP signal (A turbo goes from about 14.7 psi, then slides up to peak boost, then down to about 4 psi while shifting... A supercharger goes from peak boost, to about 4 psi and back. No slow changes). And I still stand by the belief that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIgsUlEWwis - this sounds better than http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s9ZUwjsUKY - this. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 6:30pm
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And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x9XzFYu91M&playnext=1&list=PLBD6F13A18FE895DD&index=45&fmt=18 - this sounds better than either one of those.
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Posted By: Fiero308
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 11:54pm
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This video gives a much better comparison of the sounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krt1PNIiZXQ I definitely am not a fan of loud cars sorry Patrick that truck is too rumbly. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 12:38am
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Hugh, that's like saying some particular woman is too sexy. It's not possible! Geez, I get wood just listening to that big block Chevy.
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 2:06am
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You can't hear the turbo in that video. At least give me credit for finding two of the same engines from my ones as well (LS1 baby). And don't feel too bad, I like a lumpy cam, but that exhaust just sounded... Tinny. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: beken
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 9:57am
Tristan, you're talking about the bypass valve. Turbocharged cars have that too. The bypass valve is used for dumping off excess boost when you suddenly let go of the throttle. It does not limit boost. It controls the intake air. Kind of like a shock absorber. A wastegate in the turbocharger controls the amount of exhaust gas being used to spin the turbine. A turbocharger can spin at well over 20,000rpm. You can fry a lot of bearings with those hot gases. The wastegate will force the exhaust around the turbocharger instead of through it. Both superchargers and turbochargers perform the same basic function. That is to pressurize and force intake air into your car's engine. Superchargers use the driveshaft to spin a compressor turbine. Turbochargers use the exhaust gas being forced out of your engine to spin a turbine connected to an intake turbine. Maybe this discussion should be in a technical forum. Getting back to topic at hand, I would recommend (for the C300) a supercharger because, since it is being used as a "musclecar" of sorts, a supercharger does not have turbo-lag. Your car will feel much more like a more powerful normally aspirated engine because it does not have to wait for the exhaust gases to build build pressure in the turbocharger. The Chrysler V8 doesn't rev much higher than 6000 rpm so you will likely not hit the boost limits of a supercharger anyways. ------------- Beken (aka Ken) - bekentech@westcoastfieros.com Original and still the owner of an 85SE 2M6 4spd |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 11:11am
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Or you could buy a twin-screw and not have to worry about drop off anyways. And yes, you're completely right Ken, I was thinking of the by-pass, thank you. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 11:13am
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If you're referring to the link I posted, well, I've got no control over the speakers you're listening to the clip with. Sounds pretty damn fine over my system, despite the relatively poor recording quality of the audio in the video clip.
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 10:30pm
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My speakers work just splendidly. I just think it sounds tinny. I do like the sound of a big block - just not that particular one. http://jalopnik.com/5719917/how-to-blow-up-a-big+block-v8 - This one sounded splendid before it exploded.
------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 01 January 2011 at 11:10am
And this Dodge Neon sounds same as your big block truck 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4uolC3YcZ8 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4uolC3YcZ8 |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 01 January 2011 at 4:54pm
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ACR Neons are actually pretty cool. They came stock with Koni yellows. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 01 January 2011 at 6:05pm
So what's the deal with the Koni yellows when they're red
Johnny Boy the thread derailer |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 01 January 2011 at 6:21pm
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I'm sure ACR/Mopar just paints over them, they are the Yellow line of Koni's though, they can be adjusted on both jounce and rebound. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 02 January 2011 at 12:19am
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Well then, try and find a clip of a big block V8 with a lumpy cam and tube headers that sounds better while idling than the one I linked to. Seriously, I'd love to hear it.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 02 January 2011 at 12:22am
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Sounds more like my B&S powered lawn mower.
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 03 January 2011 at 12:10am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br-7zZEz8Ro&feature=related - Done. Plus, my one's supercharged. Automatic win. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 03 January 2011 at 12:45am
Not bad for a small block. By the way, what are those cheesey sci-fi "ray gun" sounds every time the gas is let off?
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Posted By: marcelvdgn
Date Posted: 03 January 2011 at 1:11pm
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Timing gears (Straight squarecut gears) as apposed to timing chain!!!!! Gives an engine the sound of a blower.....too cool if you ask me. ------------- Marcel 86SE V6 Auto 85SE V6 Auto 85 2m4 soon to be sleeper 3.8sc 5 speed |
Posted By: mxracer208
Date Posted: 03 January 2011 at 5:28pm
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biggest cam ive ever heard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG65mcICyuY&feature=related |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 04 January 2011 at 12:20am
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My '84 duke would sound pretty rough idling at 300 RPM as well. Lots of ponies in that Vette I'm sure, but its idle speed needs to be cranked up a few hundred RPM.
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 05 January 2011 at 3:04pm
Yeah, Marcel nailed it, it's a PJ Spur Gear set-up in place of the timing chain.
As for that Z06: HOLY CRAP IT SOUNDS PHENOMINAL AT WOT! ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 04 February 2011 at 8:06pm
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I found a reply for you. Go with the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7hVicNPZmY&feature=related - supercharger.
------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 04 February 2011 at 8:29pm
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Found one right here in WCF Club. Go SUPERCHARGED 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doIZoSsvCRM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doIZoSsvCRM ------------- Johnny-B-Good 
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 04 February 2011 at 8:30pm
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I love me some supercharger whine (It's one of my favourite sounds), but I thought it was hilarious how much torque that thing had. The whole body jumped when the throttle was hit, and that poor sign behind the exhaust tips looked like it was caught in a tornado.
------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 04 February 2011 at 8:44pm
------------- Johnny-B-Good
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 04 February 2011 at 10:06pm
Oh, real mature for an old guy.
ZING! lol ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |