Many of you have met Frankie, our Siberian Husky. She's the sweetest dog... around people.

However, being a husky, she's not so sweet around small animals. (She'd also go after larger animals such as coyotes, raccoons, deer, etc if given half a chance.) Cats and chickens and chipmunks need to run for their lives if they're anywhere close to her. Small dogs are not a problem if Frankie is off-leash, yes off-leash, but on-leash she's much more aggressive towards any size dogs she encounters (which I understand is not too uncommon with many dogs while on-leash).

The problem lately has been that there are some small dogs (off-leash) in the neighborhood which have run up to Frankie while she is on-leash during a walk. These little dogs don't seem to realize that running up to a much larger dog and barking in the larger dog's face isn't the brightest idea. Frankie has made a mess of a couple of these dogs before she could be pulled off of them and my girlfriend is terrified that Frankie is going to eventually be put down by the city (if reported). It's debatable whether that would actually be the outcome (as these dogs are loose which is illegal in Vancouver and running up to Frankie who is on-leash), but the problem is that Anne's kids are now reluctant to walk Frankie as they're afraid to be the ones "responsible" if Frankie kills or maims one of these dogs the next time she's confronted.

So... that's why I'd like some info on dog muzzles. Info on types and sizing and how to keep the darn things on. I don't want some "macho" muzzle on Frankie. I'd like it to be as inconspicuous (and as comfortable for her) as possible. Any advice would be appreciated.

Please note I am not using the "correct terms for everything" as I am trying to make it easier to understand.

Sounds like Frankie might be able to benefit from just a halti rather than a full on muzzle.  Uhm how do I explain a halti.  Well think of it like a leash for there snout. It goes around there neck and another small strap that goes around there jaw.  The leash is then attached to a mid point "under" there jaw.  It allows you to simultaneously pull there snout closed and pull there snout towards you.   However when you are not pulling on the leash they are free to open there mouth, pant and feel totally normal.  It gives you control over there head and jaw, while allowing them to feel free.

        Now if you do feel the need for a full muzzle, stay away from any solid materials.  Make sure its a mesh type.  You have seen the one we have for duke, its a simple plastic mesh with Velcro straps, goes around his jaw and has a plastic clip that goes around the back of his head.  Most people don't even notice that it is on him until we point it out.    However frankly I hate putting it on him.  It would be like taking you into an area that you feel threatened into a crowded space with lots of "mean" people around you, and having your hands tied behind your back.     

         If you really feel the need for a muzzle then get the mesh type, however a halti is probably more than enough. 

Capt Fiero wrote: If you really feel the need for a muzzle then get the mesh type, however a halti is probably more than enough.

Thanks Dave, you bring up some good points. I've heard of a "halti" before, but hadn't really considered it for this purpose. I guess my main concern is whether it would be effective enough when Anne's kids are walking Frankie.

I'll post some pictures tonight of various muzzles (and a halti) so everyone will know what we're talking about.

OMG !!!

Anne will just love that picture. Not.

Yikes...

Dawg wrote: Patrick, I think the "best" solution is get some professional training for Frankie.  There are some very good trainers out there.

I dunno, she's almost ten years old. You know the expression about not being able to teach old dogs new tricks.

Maybe we need the dog whisperer.

kharmata wrote: I love em all but huskey's (as magnificent as they are) can be very stubborn and shy of beating them in the skull, you won't win the battle.

And don't I know it! It's very difficult to tell a stubborn and smart dog what to do if they don't see any purpose in it. (Just to make it clear though, I have never hit her to discipline her and never plan to.)

I've learned with Frankie that if she's really interested in something else (like a squirrel while we're out in the woods) and I want her to come, I need to use dog psychology and simply walk away from her. She innately wants to stay with the "pack" and usually she'll come running after me (which always makes me feel good). No amount of hollering her name has quite the same effect.

Damn it, I lost the whole post I had ready with pictures of different muzzles! Sh!t.

I'll try again. Grrrrrr....

I didn't bother with the Hannibal Lecter model that Johnny posted above, but I do have a variety of muzzles here to show.

A wire muzzle...

A leather muzzle...

Clynt sent me a link to show the type of muzzle that Sam (his favorite bulldog) wears when out on the town.

This type of muzzle would scare the hell out of the neighbors!

Something inconspicuous like this would be great, as long as it works.

And this is a Halti (that Dave mentioned), which is very similar to something called a Gentle Leader.

I couldn't find anything that actually stated that a Halti would prevent a dog from biting, but I got a kick out of http://www.doggiewould.com.au/haltercollars.html - This site as their husky obviously didn't enjoy modeling this type of harness.

And I'm not all that sure what to make of this, but I suspect these two are both a lot of fun at the parties that Tristan attends!

I always have a pocket full of yummy treats.

...It needed to be said.

kharmata wrote: Romeo wrote: I always have a pocket full of yummy treats.   ...It needed to be said. Dare i ask what or why?

Anyways, I don't know if you know, but my blind dog used to be a real a-hole (Would attack anything and everything, just for giggles). We found that a halti (As David suggested) did the trick just wonderfully. Attacking becomes far less alluring when you're straining your neck in the process. Now we don't even have to use the halti, he's been re-conditioned to not want to do that (Off-leash he's still a colossal prick though).

Bassman wrote: Halti's work great, my neighbour has one for her dog, but Frankie is a husky and at 10 years old it would be tough to change her...just adjust so she can enjoy an active lifestyle...I miss my husky

Brian, I agree that trying something new with a 10 year old husky may not work out, but heck, I think I'll at least try a Halti as I'm quite reluctant to put a "real" muzzle on her. 

I picked up a Halti today at PetSmart for $14.99 (on special, woo-hoo!), so we'll see how well it works this weekend.

Keep in mind that the Halti will probably only be used by the kids if/when Frankie gets used to it. When Anne or I take Frankie for walks, it's often in the UBC Endowment Lands (Spirit Park) where Frankie is off-leash and free to run all over the place. She loves it! (It's only two blocks from Anne's place in Dunbar.)

kharmata wrote: Patrick. One key factor in training most dogs is a pocket full of yummy treats. I trust you have tried this method of control/encouragement ;-)

Kevin, the problem with training Frankie is that she doesn't particularly like treats (unless it's a live chicken!) and she's not all that fond of "praise" and/or affection either. I suspect it's a husky trait, but whether it is or isn't, it's difficult to reinforce good behavior with a dog like Frankie who is SO independant.

With Frankie I find the best way to encourage good behavior and/or following orders is to NOT make her stand still. So for example, if she doesn't stop at the curb when I say "Wait", I then make her stand there for a couple of minutes to think about it. She doesn't like this at all.  However, the next time I say "Wait" she screeches to a halt at the curb and stays there motionless until I say "Let's go" (after making her wait only about three seconds or so).

kharmata wrote: Romeo wrote: I always have a pocket full of yummy treats. Dare i ask what or why?

Tristan's favorite pickup line... "Come here little girl, I've got some candy."

kharmata wrote: Sounds All 2 familiar. Have you trained before? did you learn from a reliable source? I tend to believe when people say they require constant, consistent attention to get and keep their obedience.

I've been around dogs before, but I've never had my own previously. Well technically, Frankie is Anne's dog, but I spend a lot of time around the two of them.

So to be completely honest, I know nothing about training dogs... and I started with a husky!

I tell ya, the last five years with Frankie have been very educational.

kharmata wrote: And don't forget to love her!

Believe me, there are very few dogs who are loved more than Frankie. Between myself and Anne and Anne's two kids, Frankie is smothered in affection. Being a husky, she occasionally has to leave the room because she can't stand all the attention. Seriously!  

Romeo wrote: You guys wouldn't believe who I have trying to get me to make a pass at her... I'll give you a hint: She's a waitress and her name starts with E (And ends with -mily).

Jeez, I miss one meeting and the poor girl loses all her senses.

Romeo wrote: Back to topic, how's the halti working out for you, Patty?

Well, I only bought the thing a few hours ago.

I'll be taking it over to Anne's place tomorrow. I promise to file a report after our first test run with the Frankster.

First report...

Anne's daughter and I took Frankie out on a test walk today. Worked out pretty well.  

Frankie doesn't like the Halti on her beak, but as long as we keep her moving, she doesn't fuss a heck of a lot.

The big test will be when we confront a coyote or two!

Old people are always letting crazy things out of their mouths. Right Patty?

...Hehe.

Car-2-Lo wrote: Just curious, why after 10 years you're muzzling poor Frankie now at her golden years

Johnny, I covered that in my first post.

Patrick wrote: The problem lately has been that there are some small dogs (off-leash) in the neighborhood which have run up to Frankie while she is on-leash during a walk. These little dogs don't seem to realize that running up to a much larger dog and barking in the larger dog's face isn't the brightest idea. Frankie has made a mess of a couple of these dogs before she could be pulled off of them and my girlfriend is terrified that Frankie is going to eventually be put down by the city (if reported). It's debatable whether that would actually be the outcome (as these dogs are loose which is illegal in Vancouver and running up to Frankie who is on-leash), but the problem is that Anne's kids are now reluctant to walk Frankie as they're afraid to be the ones "responsible" if Frankie kills or maims one of these dogs the next time she's confronted.

I went for my second walk with the halti on Frankie and she is doing great.  I have to admit I'm very surprised how well she's adapted so quickly to this new harness. The real test will be when she sees something she really really wants to chase.

You can see in this shot that the halti strap around Frankie's muzzle is not tight (unless she tries to pull away), so having this type of harness on is not as bad as it might first appear.

For anyone not familiar with a Halti, the strap you see disappearing at the bottom of the picture actually has a clip on it which attaches to the dog's regular collar, and the leash then attaches to the metal ring in the middle of this strap.

Because, Johnny Boy, other people are stupid, and the government always sides with stupid people.

I had someone else's dog get into my backyard (It's owner apparently having let it dug in) and Dakota bit it's ear: $500 fine, and Dakota almost got put down for it.

Even if you warn people, all it takes is one dumb person to not heed an obvious warning, and suddenly Frankie is the one in trouble.

Car-2-Lo wrote: Yes I know you covered that at first, but why after 10 years, what took you so long then, why now

Well first of all, we didn't get Frankie until she was five years old!

Second, we hadn't had a problem with unleased dogs rushing up to Frankie while she's on-leash until Anne moved into her present home two years ago.

At the dog park or in the woods when all the dogs are off-leash, there are no problems with Frankie and the other hounds.

Car-2-Lo wrote: Then it's not poor Frankie's fault, the owner should have full control and warn other dogs and people...

Which dog's "owner" you referring to?

The first time we had a problem was when the neighbor's dog came out of nowhere and attacked Frankie just as Anne was leaving her yard with Frankie for a walk. The little bastard scratched or bit Frankie's eye in the melee, and the resulting vet bill ended up costing Anne $150 as Frankie's eye got infected.

Dogs have good memories, and needless to say Frankie HATES that dog now. I don't blame her. The problem is that the other dog's owner continually let's it out of their yard off-leash. I've had that same fricken dog run up to Frankie when I've had Frankie out for a walk. It's pretty difficult trying to maintain order when you've got an upset husky on-leash looking for payback while a quick little dog is off-leash darting in and out snapping at your ankles. I'm almost inclined to let Frankie off her leash to finish off the little bastard.

I've told the owner face to face to either keep his dog in his yard or on-leash. He did it for about a month. Now he's dog-sitting two other dogs and guess what he's currently doing? He rides his bike around the neighborhood while all three dogs run free pooping and barking behind him!

Romeo wrote: Because, Johnny Boy, other people are stupid, and the government always sides with stupid people... all it takes is one dumb person to not heed an obvious warning, and suddenly Frankie is the one in trouble.

Exactly. We're doing our best trying to prevent further canine confrontations, but we're not getting much cooperation from these neighbors.

Patrick wrote: Romeo wrote: Because, Johnny Boy, other people are stupid, and the government always sides with stupid people... all it takes is one dumb person to not heed an obvious warning, and suddenly Frankie is the one in trouble. Exactly. We're doing our best trying to prevent further canine confrontations, but we're not getting much cooperation from these neighbors.

...Just sayin'.

Romeo wrote: You should punch him. ...Just sayin'.

Believe me, I sometimes feel like it. However, I need to watch myself (including what I say to him) as I'm not at Anne's place all the time and I don't wish to makes things more difficult for her and the kids (and the hound) while I'm not there to oversee the situation.

Okay, Frankster and I are off into the woods now. She's been waiting very patiently all morning!