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Help!?!?!

Printed From: West Coast Fieros
Category: Technical Topics Forum
Forum Name: Technical Questions and Discussions
Forum Description: Got a technical question about your fiero? ask it here.
URL: http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3062
Printed Date: 22 November 2024 at 10:41am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Help!?!?!
Posted By: Bekillin
Subject: Help!?!?!
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 3:51pm
OK, so a few days ago I purchased an 86' Fiero GT Fastback. I met the guy took it for a test drive and everything seems mechanically functional at that time. Car does need alot of work though. So I get on the highway and i'm driving for about 1.2hrs doing 70-75mph and it just dies on me going down the road. I coasted to the shoulder and tried to crank the motor. Nothin... battery was totally dead. Bought a new battery and tried to crank again. YAY!! it turns over but will only stay running for less than a second before it kills itself. Figured it was a fuel delivery problem. So I bought a new fuel filter and while the outgoing was still disconnected i primed the fuel lines. YAY! again because its shoveling gas out. I reconnect all the lines and I also go through the trouble to remove the intake and the fuel rail and clean the injectors. I made sure that all the injectors still worked to. yell at me if you like but I just used 12v battery current to fire the injectors. I also visually inspected the fuel rail and blocked off holes while I blew through them, even ran some pipe cleaners down it. nothing special. But I put everything back together and went to crank again. Same problem, it will run for less than a second then kill itself. I did figure out though that if I feather the throttle I can keep it running, but as soon as I let off or try to engage the car or basically anything that requires me to not continuously feather the throttle it just dies again. I no longer know what to do. please help. ALL IDEAS WELCOME!!!!!!



Replies:
Posted By: CFoss
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 4:06pm
If the altenator is weak or non functional, it's been my experience that the low voltage plays havoc with the ignition system. I've experienced lots of missing when the voltage is low.

That's the only reason I can think of that would kill you 1.2 hours down the road, other than an ignition module/distributor problem. The icm doesn't match your symptoms because of the running while feathered situation. It could still be the distributor cap/rotor/weak coil/bad spark plugs/bad wires though.

Also, hook up a fuel pressure guage. just because it's priming doesn't mean much. You should have 30+psi.

Also, check the fuses for the injectors (2,  5 amp fuses).

Chay


-------------
86 SE 3.4


Posted By: Bekillin
Date Posted: 18 October 2012 at 1:26pm
Could it also have anything to do with compression? i really dont know but was just a thought. its not leaking anywhere under the car or in the engine bay. blown headgasket does not sound like my problem. also the guy i got the car from said he put a stage 2 cooling fan on the radiator and that the thermo that was installed is a 130deg. that sounds way to low since i have heard the fiero runs hot. and another thing, when i was driving the car before it broke down on me inside the car i can hear a pulsing vroom vroom (electrical) and my battery guage is constantly moving back and forth a couple of volts to the rythym of the sound. i would like to stop that, its very annoying. and could that have drained the battery? with the computer constantly thinking its about to overheat so its always running? and when i start it and feather the throttle it sounds mechanically sound other than the revving that im doing to keep it going, no knocks, smoke, or ticks. i cant even tell if its misfireing at all. im very confused because the car ran great and just out of no where died on the highway.


Posted By: CFoss
Date Posted: 18 October 2012 at 1:43pm

Anything is possible, but compression is not usually there one second, gone the next like spark or fuel is. Does it turn over? If yes, a compression test would get you strted on a baseline for the engine.

 

Pull all the plugs, full throttle, and rotate the engine at least 3 times.

130F or 130C...130f sounds too low, 130C too high. Most run a 160f/95C thermostat, which means something like a 180f/110C would be more appropriate.

A fan on all the time will not cause your issue though. I ran with a fan on for 2 years with no issues (My switch was shot, so I bypassed it).

 

You need to find someone with mechanical experience to help you troubleshoot in a methodical way. The shotgun approach (splattering theroys everywhere) does not work and any car, let alone a Fiero. Not trying to be a Ahole, but that 's the reality.

Answer these questions:

 

a) Do you have compression?

b) Do you have fuel (pressure, quantity)

c) Do you have spark (out of the plug, and every plug)?

99.9% of engine difficulties have to do with one of the three.

Chay



-------------
86 SE 3.4


Posted By: CFoss
Date Posted: 18 October 2012 at 2:04pm

One more thing. Some of your symptoms point to lack of injectors firing (Loss of a ground at the ecm, or the ecm itself).

 

The reason I say this is the cold start injector will allow the engine to fire and then die repeatedly. The other injectors should take over, but it sounds like that is not happening.

 

The injectors have a solid 12V applied to one side of them, and the ecm gounds the other side to fire them. Again, check the 5A fuses going to the injectors, check the injector connector (unlikely) under the intake plenum, check the ecm ground (The ecm can't complete it's circuit if the ground is broken), that kind of thing.

 

There is also a device called a 'noid' light which can be plugged into an injector connector to verify the ecm/injector action.

 

Injectors sould audibly click if you have a automotive stethescope on one at the time. The difficulty with all of these ideas is that the fiero injectors are burried due to a crappy intake plenum design.

 

 

Chay



-------------
86 SE 3.4


Posted By: Bekillin
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 12:57pm
thanks so much for the input, i am going to buy some test guages and a noid light and do some tests on the topics you posted. i will post any fails/success when im done but any further info you guys can think of is still very much welcome. 


Posted By: D_sensitized
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 7:50pm
Check to make sure all the gaskets around the intake/throttle body are in right, you mentioned you took all that apart to get at the injectors, so some may have got pinched or slipped out when you put it all back in.

Also, the electronic whirring sound you hear is most likely the fuel pump.

-------------
-Harrison
88GT 3800 SC1 F23 5-speed
Chilliwack


Posted By: Bekillin
Date Posted: 02 November 2012 at 5:06pm
Hello again, well I have good news! The fiero is now running and it sounds pretty smooth. no knocks, ticks or smoke. I replaced the fuel pump, strainer, and filter and whaa laa! And I believe you were right about the electonic sound inside the cab being the fuel pump, I no longer hear it inside the cab but all the lights on the vehicle still pulse. I was listening and under the hood I heard a click click going to the beat of the light surges. Its the fan relay. The previous owner did say he replaced it and also the stock fan was removed and a 2 stage cooling fan was installed. Im not sure of that or not because I have no idea what it would look like anyways. But it is that relay I believe that is causing the surges and when I started the car the fan instantly was on, I dont think it should do that until it reaches a certain temp right? Also the previous owner has wired up his own switch to shut the fuel pump off/on but when I dropped the fuel tank it had stock wires on them and looked as nothing had been touched since 1986. I wanted to fix it to where the fuel pump primes and functions the way it should and not constantly run with the switch on. I just think that is terrible for the fuel pump right? The switch is wired into the fuse box but I havent chased from where the switch goes afterwards. Really I just dont know why it was done in the first place but at least it runs now. Thanks to everyone for all the input you gave

-------------
-Brice
86 GT 2.8L


Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 02 November 2012 at 11:36pm
It is common for the heat activated fan switches to die. The after
market parts we get today suck. So guys just hardwire the fans to run
all the time. Easy fix. Uses up a lot of power for nothing.

Ask me how I know.....:)

Dawg

-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it


Posted By: Bekillin
Date Posted: 03 November 2012 at 4:04pm
well i plugged in the old fan relay and let the car idle till it hit temps of 220f on my guage and the fan still never kicked on but the relay itself was making a click click just like the new relay except my lights dont dim to the relay like the new one. I ended up just putting the new relay back on and the fan kicks on but the power surges are back. I was looking on all the auto parts stores and I cant seem to find the part number anywhere for the relay that is installed so I dont know if it is a different temp relay or not. P/N: JD191J1-12v, I also did a search on google for P/N: 10038311 and lots of stuff came up saying that its the OEM GM fan relay still no info on its temp rating though either. Should I just buy another relay from autozone? I dont like the loud clicking or the light surges


-------------
-Brice
86 GT 2.8L


Posted By: ARTIC-1
Date Posted: 03 November 2012 at 6:03pm
Sound like its that relay thats screwing up.
i changed mine right a way to an adjustable
one.works great! Get them at the local auto
parts place,you should get rid of that relay.
hope this helps.

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/accessories/24-0100/sw itch-adjustable-radiator-fantemp-p-2750.html



-------------
SNOW MAN

87-GT/AUTO-2.8_ WHITE

88-TTop/ Duke-2.5. RED



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