Hi all,

I was trying to assist Ryan with his clutch with the little knowledge I have, we have looked on Pennocks and cannot seem to find any details on how one can check their clutch release, or what are the systems and fixes if any.

Thanks All

Brian, is the problem with Ryan's clutch that it doesn't disengage properly. If so, that topic has been covered a gazillion times at PFF because it's such a common problem. It's that gol-darn poorly designed hydraulic system the Fiero has.

The clutch on my first Fiero was a nightmare. I was constantly "bleeding" it. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010706-2-000034.html - Here is an infamous thread at PFF from more than nine years ago where I and a lot of others thrashed around a few ideas.

Put on a pot of coffee and start reading.

Thanks on behalf of Ryan:), see man, I told you if posted Cpt, Craker or Patrick would reply...I did explain that our clutches are a headache being hydraulic...why is it that someone has not made an aftermarket clutch, so many other parts are for our cars...lol.

His main issue is it grinds into third and downshiftng into second and third.

I see your up late also...time for some late night gaming with my friends in the UK and Australia...lol

Bassman wrote: I did explain that our clutches are a headache being hydraulic...

It's not so much the system being hydraulic that causes the problem. Lots of makes of cars have hydraulic clutches which work problem-free. Heck, even my lowly '94 Hyundai Elantra has a hydraulic clutch that has never had a hydraulic problem in the 3 1/2 years I've owned it. I've never bled it even once! Never a problem with disengaging the clutch.

My experience is that it's the design of the slave cylinder which is the weak link in the Fiero's hydraulic system. It can allow air into the system without showing any sign of fluid leakage. It's sneaky. I hate it.

Bassman wrote: His main issue is it grinds into third and downshiftng into second and third.

If it's NOT grinding into first and/or reverse as well (with the engine running), I suspect it might be more of an adjustment problem with the shifter cables.

Capt Fiero wrote: I have driven Ryan's car, and to be very honest, I don't think there is a hydraulic issue.

Yeah, that's why I asked if it was grinding while going into first and/or reverse (with the engine running). If it's a hydraulic problem and the clutch isn't disengaging properly, it'll grind for sure at this time (although it should still be able to go into first and/or reverse just fine with the engine not running).

Bassman wrote: His main issue is it grinds into third and downshiftng into second and third.

Capt Fiero wrote: 3 options to this mess. A. Its the original Trans and it simple has a pooched 3rd gear. B. It is a used one, with a bad Synchro (I know the easterbrooks had a used Getrag about the same time as Smurf owned it, and it had a pooched 3rd gear Synchro) C. And this is a long shot, someone put either Motor Oil or ATF in the trans and it should have Synchro Mesh.

If it's grinding downshifting into second gear as well, it would appear there's more to this problem than just a "pooched" third gear synchro, although a worn out third gear synchro could possibly explain the problem with third gear itself grinding.

I think Ryan should:

1) Make sure the correct fluid is in the tranny. GM Synchromesh (as David suggested) is probably the best, although there are some others made by other companies which are supposed to be equivalent.

2) Make sure the linkages (shifter cables) are adjusted properly. It's also possible they stretch/wear beyond being usable. (And with what David mentioned about the tranny possibly being changed, make sure it's the correct cables being used, although I don't know for sure if they differ between the Getrag and the Isuzu.)

3) If first and/or reverse grind (with the engine running), properly bleed the hydraulics. If these gears don't grind, don't bother.

Obviously if there is an internal problem, none of this will help. However, it's certainly worthwhile trying before ripping the tranny out.

Dr.Fiero wrote: Ok, no question about it then - you have a bent pedal, no ifs and or buts about it.

So John, do you think Ryan's pedal might be bent?

Yes, a bent pedal could certainly be contributing to Ryan’s problem, but seeing as how his first gear isn’t difficult to get into (not that we’ve been made aware of anyway), I’d be surprised if there weren’t still other issues.

Ryan, just so you know, there’s two types of pedals made of different metals. Aluminum ones which have a tendency to bend, and steel ones which seldom bend. Obviously you’ll want to replace your pedal if it’s bent with a steel one. A quick way to distinguish the two is with a magnet. It'll stick to a steel one and yep, not stick to an aluminum one.

88FormulaFiero wrote: ...when shifting into reverse I have to go into fifth first and then into reverse to prevent it from grinding, would this be caused by stretched shift cables?

Have you tried adjusting the linkages yet? 

Don't worry about whether the cables are "stretched" until you've eliminated some other variables.

It would tell us a lot if you could mention what gears (if any) are difficult to get into when the engine is NOT running.

I havent tried adjusting the linkages yet, i'll look that up and try doing it  on tues.  I'm not sure which gears are hard to get into when the engine is not running, I dont remember any being particularily hard but I havent tried that in a bit.  I'll check tonight when I go back home (I dont have my car with me).  

Edit to add that it runs though the gears very easily while the engine is off, almost no effort required.  Deffinitly easier than with the engine running

88FormulaFiero wrote: Edit to add that it runs though the gears very easily while the engine is off, almost no effort required.  Deffinitly easier than with the engine running

I'm no expert, so listen to what everyone else says as well , but that suggests to me that it's more of a clutch issue than a tranny problem.

It's not disengaging properly. Whether it's the pedal or the hydraulics or both or neither is yet to be determined.

However, I'd say the cables/linkage adjustment are probably fine.

Ryan, bring your car to the meeting this Saturday and let a few of us try driving it. Seriously. That'll give us a lot more to go on.

ok, it'll be there.  Capt thinks its the transmission and he's probably right, i've been trying to rule out the other possibilities though, before doing anything durastic. 

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions, they've been really helpfull

Ryan