West Coast Fieros Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home » Technical Topics Forum » Technical Questions and Discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 87 V6 Clutch Issue
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

87 V6 Clutch Issue

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 87 V6 Clutch Issue
    Posted: 15 February 2016 at 11:14am

Ok I have finally decided to reach out for help as I am stumped and not sure how to proceed.

Background:

87 SE Notchback
stock V6
5speed Getrag
 

I have owned my Fiero for about 2+ years now. When I bought it, it had been sitting for many years but I got it home and got it running (long story short). At that time I had to replace the clutch slave and some of the line as it had rusted out. I bought the parts from Rodney Dickman’s site. Replaced the parts and bled the system by myself no problem.

I drove the car off and on as it is a continuing work in progress. This summer it got a lot of use but at the end of the summer (after letting my son use the car one evening) it developed a clutch issue. Actually the clutch works fine it just won't disengage properly. With your foot to the floor it barely disengages.

I noticed that the old master cylinder was rusty and seemed to be seeping around the banjo. I got a replacement from Lordco. Installed it without issue and bled the system as I had done before but this time no go.

For love nor money I cannot get it to work.

Here are the things that I have done\checked

1. Clutch Pedal is higher than brake pedal
2. Banjo is correct orientation (loop is up)
3. Tried 2 person bleed opening and closing bleeder valve.
4. purchased Rodney Dickman one way bleeder valve.
5. Gravity bled the lines
6. Tried clamping slave and gravity bleeding system (this was a difficult procedure not sure if I did the best job)

In all cases when I am done I am left with a little bit of clutch disengagement but still grinds badly or won't go into gear while running. If you put the car in gear while off then start the car the clutch will engage with little movement off the floor with the clutch pedal.

The odd thing is there seems to be a lot of movement in the slave banjo.

I am frustrated because of how easy this was when I originally put in the new slave when I first got the car running.

Any help\thoughts would be appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Shawn

Back to Top
ARTIC-1 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 October 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Quote ARTIC-1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2016 at 4:10pm
Hi Shawnwil
Welcome to the madness.Sounds like you have had a great time with your clutch.other members have had more experance with the Fiero clutch than me, an may chime in,I've worked on my share of clutches,and it sounds like the slave May not be stroking(pushing) far enfugh.thats one,or there is something? Going on with the presser plate,throw out barring.Do you have a Snake cam,a must have,I use one all the time,you can pull a vent plug or drain plug on a gearbox Stick the cam in an take a peek,I would borrow,buy get a cam an do an inspection,clutch and gearbox.you may just
Find your problem.how far is your slave moving,measure it,some one here should no how far is except able.
Good luck


SNOW MAN

87-GT/AUTO-2.8_ WHITE

88-TTop/ Duke-2.5. RED
Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2016 at 8:39am
Thanks Artic-1

I do have a snake cam I will have to take a look to see if I can find a way to get it in there to inspect. I am hoping that it is not mechanical as that makes it a much bigger job. 

Thanks

Shawn
Back to Top
Fieroman88 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Executive Member

Joined: 09 January 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote Fieroman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 7:45pm
Bleeding these can be hell.  Dave (AKA) Captain Fiero  suggested to me many years ago to put the car in a position so that the engine end of the car is lower than the front master. Open the bleeder on the slave and remove the cap on the reservoir and just let gravity bleed it out. Keep it full though. This seems to work best as it sounds like you may still have air in the line. After you believe your done, cap it at both ends and pump it up as it seems to need that , and then it settles down. ( this provided that parts at both ends are new and that there are no other issues as Artic touched on.)   Good luck and let us know please.    
Fieroman88
Back to Top
Fieroman88 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Executive Member

Joined: 09 January 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote Fieroman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 7:47pm
PS: the throw out bearing arm could be bent as some of the earlier ones wern't as strong. ( i've heard) 
Fieroman88
Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2016 at 1:46pm
Thanks for the Reply Fieroman88
 
I have tried to gravity Bleed the system. Front end jacked up open the bleeder and let the fluid flow threw the system.
 
Strange thing happened the other night. After doing yet another gravity bleed of the system I was able to shift through all the gears very smooth no issue. The clutch pedal worked as expected back and forth in my garage 2 or three times then went back to no shift \ grinding and barely any disengage when pedal all the way to the floor.
 
Based on this I think the throw out bearing arm is fine. if it was bent it would never work even for a short time.
 
The master cylinder is brand new and the slave  (Rodney Dickman) is a couple of years old not much use.
 
I don't see any leaks in the system (no streams of fluid or dripping) anywhere. There is one compression fitting on the line at the back but is dry. Unless air could get in with out any leak of fluid .
 
I am not sure what to do next. 
 
Thanks
 
Shawn 


Edited by Shawnwil - 19 February 2016 at 2:51pm
Back to Top
Dr.Fiero View Drop Down
Senior Post God
Senior Post God
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1726
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2016 at 4:25pm
A lot of the time, it comes down to a feeling, or touch...

Where are you located?

Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2016 at 5:15pm
East Abbotsford. 
Back to Top
Dr.Fiero View Drop Down
Senior Post God
Senior Post God
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1726
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2016 at 5:17pm
Well, Daves MUCH closer to you than me.  

Is the car at all driveable now?  Or just hard to shift.

Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2016 at 5:40pm
not drivable at all and it is currently not insured. 



Back to Top
Dr.Fiero View Drop Down
Senior Post God
Senior Post God
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1726
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2016 at 12:41pm
Toughie as you're too far for me to just drop by.

If you want to verify you've got all the air out, one thing I've done is to remove the pushrod at the slave.
DO NOT step on the clutch pedal with your foot at this point!!!!!!!  No more pressure than you could exert with one finger.  The pedal should be rock solid. With the cap off the m/c, you should have little problem pushing the rod back into the slave, and tucking it into the lever.

Grab a ruler, and have someone step on the pedal now. A sharpie mark on the rod helps. Measure the travel.  Should be about 1-1/4" if memory serves.  Or was that for the Isuzu (damn, been a lot of years since I've had to do this!).  Maybe it was 7/8".  More the merrier though.

Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2016 at 1:27pm
Thanks I will give it another go over the weekend sometime.  would it be better to have the slave pushrod compressed as far as possible then try bleeding the system again?

Also is there any benefit to opening the bleeder at the master side and trying  to push air out on that end. 

All of the bleeding has been done at the slave up till now. 

If I could get it to work a bit I don't mind driving it out to have someone else take a look. (With day insurance of course) :-)

Thanks

Shawn
Back to Top
Dr.Fiero View Drop Down
Senior Post God
Senior Post God
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1726
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2016 at 3:13pm
It's all done from the back.

You DID properly bench bleed the master right?  If you didn't, you'll (probably) never get it right.  There's just too many nooks & crannies to get a trapped pocket of air. If the system has ever gone dry (during bleeding, etc) it's gotta be done again.

Oh, and trying to keep the piston compressed while bleeding will be an exercise in frustration. Not to mention, when you then release it, the seals will fold in under the vacuum and suck in air!  Better off to push it in after.


p.s. - you say the slave is 'newish'.  I've seen them get rusty and go bad in a few months.  Sucks eh?

Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2016 at 10:48pm
Ok

well I am almost beat. Just about to put a for sale sign on the Fiero. 

Can't get it to work. If anyone is available to help that would be appreciated.  I live in East Abbotsford. 

Thanks

Shawn
Back to Top
ARTIC-1 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 October 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Quote ARTIC-1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2016 at 4:02pm
I'll try to make some time to stop by,I live in Harrison,not to far. Don't Sell your Fiero buddy,we all have had the same time like that,,mine was Exhaust pipes turning cherry red,couldn't find it.In the end it was just plug wires that fixed it.i have a power brake bleeder an it shouldn't take long to do a clutch with that.next few days if someone else doesn't help you first.
Cheers

SNOW MAN

87-GT/AUTO-2.8_ WHITE

88-TTop/ Duke-2.5. RED
Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2016 at 8:41pm
Thanks

Pretty sure I won't sell it haha. 
Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2016 at 9:21pm
OK got the clutch issue resolved. 

In the end I ordered another new master cylinder from Rodney Dickman.  After chatting with Rodney for a while and trying everything under the sun to get the system bled , I decided to order a new Master from him. 
It arrived today. I swapped out the old(new) with the new and bled the system. 

Worked first try. 

All this grief due to bad replacement part. 

Thank you for the responses that I got on this post. 

Shawn
Back to Top
Fieroman88 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Executive Member

Joined: 09 January 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote Fieroman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2016 at 4:09pm
Just reading up and glad you got it worked out. Hope to see you around sometime. Keep an eye on here for get togethers and outings.  Good luck and keep it going.  
Fieroman88
Back to Top
Shawnwil View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Quote Shawnwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2016 at 7:19pm
Well ... After getting the hydraulics sorted out I was able to take the car for a spin. I could tell something wasn't right almost instantly. When starting the car would shutter quite a lot. Then, it happened. In 3rd and 4th gear it started to slip. 

So long storey short had to remove engine to get the transmission out to get the clutch. Here is what I found. 


There seems to be some clutch material missing Smile 




I can't believe I was able to drive at all. Anyhow thought I would just share my adventure with you all. I did skip the entire engine remove part but I am sure you have all seen that before. Confused

Thanks

Shawn

Back to Top
Fieroman88 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Executive Member

Joined: 09 January 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote Fieroman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2016 at 9:42pm
Wow! Well you're a better man than me as I dread the day I have to do the same. I have pulled one engine and say it's a job. Congratulations to you. 😀
Fieroman88
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.