Diagnostics |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Diagnostics Posted: 06 June 2008 at 12:51pm |
My Fiero is still down. I'm going to have some time this weekend to work on it but I need some information to help me diagnose the problem.
1. What should the compression be on each cylinder? (86 Tech4) 2. What is an average/acceptable psi for the fuel line? 3. Is there a way to check if the oxygen sensor is working properly? Hopefully I'll get the car running better this weekend. Its not insured so I won't have it at the car show, but I hope to be there and meet up with some of you guys. |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2008 at 9:08pm |
1: 150+ (even is more important than the actual #)
2: Around 7psi IIRC 3: Not until you get it running. And that won't affect it running or not BTW (the ECM doesn't even look at it for about 60 sec's after starting). |
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 June 2008 at 12:54am |
The car is running. It starts and idles fine, but violently hesitates or "bogs" through the mid rpm's. Once you get it up to around 3000 she runs clean. Although once on the highway it's as if there is a limiter on the engine as it doesn't pull any harder past 3000. Where as normally after 3000 the car takes off and pulls VERY strong.
I just hope it's not that stupid fuel tank sock, or the pump itself. I had no idea how I'd change those. |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 June 2008 at 12:07pm |
Had some time to work on the car yesterday. The car seems to be
having a difficult time starting, but if I drip 2 table spoons of gas
into the TBI she fires up right away. If I disconnect the vacuum line
from the map sensor the car runs perfectly for 30 seconds and then
starts to run rough. If I leave the vacuum line on, the car runs rough
for the first 30 seconds and continues to run rough.
Does this mean anything to anyone? |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 June 2008 at 6:17pm |
You're running really lean.
Pulling the MAP sensor line off tells the ECM (falsely) that you've got the gas pinned to the floor, or more accurately, that you've got an extreme load on it. So it dumps in more fuel. I say you've got a gimped TBI unit, injector, or the filter sock is clogged, or the pump is trashed, or the filter is clogged, or.... shall I go on? |
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 June 2008 at 10:39pm |
It was running perfectly until I stopped to get some gas and then 20 seconds later it started acting up doing the things previously mentioned.
I'll try some more things and post what I find. |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 3:54pm |
Just checked the fuel pump by installing the pressure gauge in the fuel line before the fuel filter. The first time the key was turned on it pressurized to 25KPA or 3.5psi, then dropped, and the next three times it pressurized only to 20KPA or 3psi, then dropped.
Is the low fuel pressure most likely my problem? I'm going back out the check the compression of the engine, I'll post my findings when I'm done. |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 4:03pm |
3.5psi is WAY low - and it dropping rapidly off tells me you're bypassing fuel through the regulator (which would also explain the low pressure reading probably).
Probably the easiest solution here is to swap out the TBI unit with a known good one (the pressure reg is integral BTW). Someone around here must be scrapping a duke.... You're 86 right? AFAIK, 84/85/86 are all the same. 87/88 are different. Edited by Dr.Fiero |
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 4:07pm |
I don't understand. I tested the fuel pressure before it even reached the TBI, which says to me the problem is the fuel pump.
If you're mostly sure its the intake the is the problem I know where I can grab a Holley TBI for an 86 Fiero. |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 4:19pm |
If you want to go one step more easily - clamp off the rubber return line, then pressurize the system again. The pressure should go WAY (!!!) up - maybe 40psi or more. That'll tell you how alive the pump is.
|
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 4:52pm |
Ok, I'll go and try that right now, although my gauge only gets to 10psi or 70KPA. I'll post the results.
|
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 5:07pm |
I assume the rubber line that connects to the fuel filter is the "fuel line", and the "return line" is the other rubber line that runs parallel to the fuel" line".
With the "return line" pinched with a vice grip, and the fuel pump pressure gauge placed in the "fuel line" right before it reaches the fuel filter it, there was no difference is the pressurization. It built up to 3.5psi and then dropped to 1.5psi So it seems that it makes do difference with the "return line" pinched. I had someone else turn the ignition on, while I kept the gauge input tight to the fuel line. Edited by Matt |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 8:29pm |
Does this mean I should replace the fuel pump or the TBI?
|
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Capt Fiero
Admin Group Founding Member Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4039 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 8:39pm |
Just replace the pump. If you are only getting 3.5psi on the fuel feed line, replace it. I can't offer suggestions on type of pump for the 4 popper motor. So go with whatever the parts guy tells you to go with, unless you are replacing the entire motor and in that case, go with a V6 and a Corvette Pump. :) |
|
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
|
Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 9:04pm |
And make sure you only get a DELCO pump... or you might be doing the job again in the next year or less....
|
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 11:45pm |
Ok, thanks for all the help. I'll start looking for pumps tomorrow and start reading up on the best ways to remove the gas tank, etc.
Thanks again Edit: Is the Fiero V6 fuel pump compatible with the Tech4 setup? I'd like to do an engine swap in the future. Edited by Matt |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 July 2008 at 3:12pm |
Here's what I've got so far. 1. Canadian Tire doesn't stock them or order them in 2. Wakefield and Sperling has a "Delphi" for $69.99 and a "Carter" for $89.99 and the sock for $9.99 3. Napa can order in a "Master" pump for $90.00 I can't find a "Delco" pump. |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:37pm |
Lordco is a Delco dealer (AC Delco is what your GM vehicle comes with BTW!).
Oh, and in answer to your edited post on the last page - no. The 4cyl runs about 1/4 the fuel pressure of the V6. So if you swap engines - you're swapping pumps again. But think how good you'll be at it! |
|
Matt
Senior Member Joined: 09 February 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 July 2008 at 2:41pm |
....funny
Thanks for the info. Lordco has one for $85.09 and yes I knew AC Delco was the GM standard. Also as far as I've found "Delphi" is another name for "Delco" Although I'm going to check to see if they are the exact same part numbers. If they are, I think I might try the Delphi pump for $15 less, seeing as I'm just going to have to change it again soon anyways. Maybe I can give you some free lessons on how to do it quickly? Or maybe you can show me at a tech session in my driveway? Either way, Johan will have to be on the road soon, I'm moving at the end of August! AC Delco = Albert Champion Dayton Engineering Laboratories Co. Johan = Johan van der Smut from Goldmember = My gold 86 2M4 |
|
I wanna go fast.
|
|
Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 July 2008 at 3:48pm |
My best time: 19 min's. There's your benchmark. |
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |