Clutch Release

Hi all,

I was trying to assist Ryan with his clutch with the little knowledge I have, we have looked on Pennocks and cannot seem to find any details on how one can check their clutch release, or what are the systems and fixes if any.

Thanks All

Thanks on behalf of Ryan:), see man, I told you if posted Cpt, Craker or Patrick would reply...I did explain that our clutches are a headache being hydraulic...why is it that someone has not made an aftermarket clutch, so many other parts are for our cars...lol.

His main issue is it grinds into third and downshiftng into second and third.

I see your up late also...time for some late night gaming with my friends in the UK and Australia...lol

Edited by Bassman

So true...Craker helped flush my system a year ago and rebuilt both master and slave, this year had to replace the slave...cheap thank god to replace:)...happy my GA GT is auto...lol

OK a little history on Ryan's car.

First owner was I think Mike and Tina back in 99/00 Mike drove the poop out of the car. The next Owner was Scott he again drove the car rather hard, but was not really a Fiero guy, so he got rid of it. The car got traded in at a dealership.

Ron P bought it from the dealership, did a full cosmetic restoration to the car, but I don't think he really did much in the mechanical side of it. Ron then sold it to Smurf. Smurf again drove it rather hard. Did the engine rebuild and may or may not have changed the trans axle. Stories seem to be mixed. I was told it was changed to an Isuzu 5sd however, when Ryan brought the car to me, I looked and it was a Getrag not an Isuzu that was in the car.

3 are 3 options to this mess.

A. Its the original Trans and it simple has a pooched 3rd gear.

B. It is a used one, with a bad Synchro (I know the easterbrooks had a used Getrag about the same time as Smurf owned it, and it had a pooched 3rd gear Synchro)

C. And this is a long shot, someone put either Motor Oil or ATF in the trans and it should have Synchro Mesh.

Because I don't know what parts have been installed I can't really say for sure. However some of the cheaper clutch kits will have the fingers on the pressure plate fail before the clutch does. You can have FULL movement of the slave, and it will still grind. Because the slave moves the clutch fork, which moves the throwout bearing which is suppose to push on the fingers of the pressure plate to release the clutch. If those fingers are made from cheap, soft metal, the fingers will flex and the car simply won't shift because the clutch is not fully disengaging.      When I had my Centerforce clutch in my 4.9 5spd car, I only had to push it maybe 1/2 to the floor to get full disengagement.    A Dynopack clutch which will be perfect when installed, may start to get hard to shift after only a year of driving due to the pressure plate issue.     

If you have done a gravity bleed on it and it is still acting up, I would change the fluid, and try again. If it is still grinding I would start looking for a replacement trans axle. While the trans out, I would install a better clutch.

Ryan if you are reading this, you need to get in touch with either Smurf or Blair and try to find out what the real story is on the Trans axle.

I have driven Ryan's car, and to be very honest, I don't think there is a hydraulic issue. Getting a perfect bleed on it will help the problem, but it won't solve the underlying issue of a bad 3rd gear Synchro.   Where is Devers when you need him?   (Devers is a club member that specializes in rebuilding trans axles including the getrags.)

Capt Fiero wrote: I have driven Ryan's car, and to be very honest, I don't think there is a hydraulic issue.

Yeah, that's why I asked if it was grinding while going into first and/or reverse (with the engine running). If it's a hydraulic problem and the clutch isn't disengaging properly, it'll grind for sure at this time (although it should still be able to go into first and/or reverse just fine with the engine not running).

 

Bassman wrote: His main issue is it grinds into third and downshiftng into second and third.

Capt Fiero wrote: 3 options to this mess. A. Its the original Trans and it simple has a pooched 3rd gear. B. It is a used one, with a bad Synchro (I know the easterbrooks had a used Getrag about the same time as Smurf owned it, and it had a pooched 3rd gear Synchro) C. And this is a long shot, someone put either Motor Oil or ATF in the trans and it should have Synchro Mesh.

If it's grinding downshifting into second gear as well, it would appear there's more to this problem than just a "pooched" third gear synchro, although a worn out third gear synchro could possibly explain the problem with third gear itself grinding.

I think Ryan should:

1) Make sure the correct fluid is in the tranny. GM Synchromesh (as David suggested) is probably the best, although there are some others made by other companies which are supposed to be equivalent.

2) Make sure the linkages (shifter cables) are adjusted properly. It's also possible they stretch/wear beyond being usable. (And with what David mentioned about the tranny possibly being changed, make sure it's the correct cables being used, although I don't know for sure if they differ between the Getrag and the Isuzu.)

3) If first and/or reverse grind (with the engine running), properly bleed the hydraulics. If these gears don't grind, don't bother.

Obviously if there is an internal problem, none of this will help. However, it's certainly worthwhile trying before ripping the tranny out.

Edited by Patrick

Bassman wrote: Where's Ryan in all this...lol.  I am a firm believer of GM Synchomesh, I tried thr Royal Purple one time and changed back after one week, ask Dave, my car shifts like butter:), and I change it every year

Have any tips for removing the old fluid from a Isuzu 5spd? The drain plug is different than the 4spd. Where is a good place to find "GM Syncromesh"?


Edited by Matt

LORDCO carries the oil, make sure you get the club discount, and always buy at least 1lt more for back up/touch ups...I would help you but I am a handycap...lol

Edited by Bassman

Wow, I dont look at the forum for a little bit and all this is posted, Thanks guys!!!

little more info, the problem at the moment is it grinds shifting up into third, and downshifting into second and third.  the downshifting problems are worst when the car has just been started. 

Other things, when shifting into reverse I have to go into fifth first and then into reverse to prevent it from grinding, would this be caused by stretched shift cables?

also while reading on pennocks I saw that the clutch pedal is supposed to be 1" above the brake pedal (I also saw statements saying this inst true , though most referred to 88s) my pedal sits slightly below the brake pedal

one other odd thing is that to get "full" clutch disengagement I need to put the pedal all the way to the floor, there is a bit of a zone there where the car wont move but there is more resistance getting into gear. 

final note, what I was looking for on pennocks was some way to check to see if the clutch was properly disengaging but I couldn't find anything, Is there a way to check or just bleed it and see if it improves. 

I'll be reading that link Patrick put up, looks like it'll take me a while though...

Forgot to add, the tranny fluid looked like synchromesh, i'm not sure if its the GM stuff but it looked like what I put into the GT earlier (that was synchromesh but not the GM version, I couldnt find it anywhere). 

Thanks again,

Ryan


Edited by 88FormulaFiero