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Dawg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2010 at 10:42pm
I have no easy answers Patrick.  All I know is the wheels were not THAT bad when the alignment was done.

Were the nuts tight at that time?  Obviously not.  Could Mike have done a better inspection, absolutely.

If the nuts were already loose but the ball joints hadn't totally let go yet, the play might have seemed ok to him.  Big tires can make things seem tighter than they are because there's so much rubber on the ground making it hard to wiggle the suspension around.

Lets not forget that Dave just replaced the hubs.  No way he would have missed movement like that.

What exactly is going on with his poor car, I have no idea.

DG

Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Originally posted by Dawg Dawg wrote:

But there is no way he could have done an alignment with the wheels that loose.

So what are you suggesting?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Capt Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:13pm

I had a big reply written up and POOF it went away.

Ok the short version.

       I was going to mention that I had the car here, and because we were specifically looking for loose parts in the rear suspension, the first thing I did was jack up the back end, and yank the rear wheels around, same as was shown in the video above.   Everything at that time was good.  We went ahead and did the bearings regardless.

Note this was what, 60-90 days ago, and all was well.  (except for the tie rod nut)

     Now what strikes me as odd, this was not one bolt, or even 2 or 3, those rear ball joints were 6 bolts, 3 on either side, and for all 6 bolts to come loose at nearly the same time,  6 bolts that are not even interconnected (meaning not holding the same part or relying on the other side to hold it on) to all come loose, it really makes me wonder?

         Now in my opinion, whats done is done, lets get those bolts tightened up, then check all the other bolts, and move on with life.  Heck if they are not locking nuts, maybe get a drop of red lock-tite on them.  However to my knowledge all ball joint bolts are suppose to be locking or castle nuts.

Capt Fiero
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:13pm

Originally posted by Dawg Dawg wrote:

All I know is the wheels were not THAT bad when the alignment was done.

Damien, with all due respect, you are in no position to make such a statement. None of us "know" what the hell is going on here.

Not only did John feel a problem with his car the very first time he reached any appreciable speed after having the "alignment" done, but he has barely driven the car since then as he's scared of how it feels.

Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those self-locking nuts to get that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:43pm
Good point.....what are the odds?

It would be interesting to hear how it handles now that the ball joints are tight.


Originally posted by Capt Fiero Capt Fiero wrote:

     Now what strikes me as odd, this was not one bolt, or even 2 or 3, those rear ball joints were 6 bolts, 3 on either side, and for all 6 bolts to come loose at nearly the same time,  6 bolts that are not even interconnected (meaning not holding the same part or relying on the other side to hold it on) to all come loose, it really makes me wonder?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:49pm
Another good point.......

DG

Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those self-locking nuts to get that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Car-2-Lo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Dawg Dawg wrote:


Good point.....what are the odds?It would be interesting to hear how it handles now that the ball joints are tight.
Originally posted by Capt 
<br />Fiero Capt
Fiero wrote:



     Now what strikes me as odd, this was not one bolt, or even 2 or 3, those rear ball joints were 6 bolts, 3 on either side, and
for all 6 bolts to come loose at nearly the same time,  6 bolts that are not even interconnected (meaning not holding the same part
or relying on the other side to hold it on) to all come loose, it really makes me wonder?




Wonder indeed, from side to side, that's why I took it there for an alignment in the first place. The nuts must of been getting loose
before Mike did the alignment, but DID NOT check up on that?
We both talked about how the rear was wondering and he actually blamed the wide front tires ( 245s) first that the rear wasn't
following the wide fronts properly, so there you go

Yes, it did tracked straight when left Mikes shop, but it still wondered, we now know why !
Yes, with all nuts tight it really feels great again and under power no more swaying, that was my biggest problem swaying under power

So now RAM-BUNK-SHUSH is probably BLACKLISTED from both alignment shops and it's there FAULT, it's getting to (loose) NUTS ?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:55am
I'm glad she's working ok now.  You should show up at the tech session we're having soon so we can give it a once over.Maybe a twice over too.

DG
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Car-2-Lo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Dawg Dawg wrote:

I'm glad she's working ok now.  You should show up at the tech session we're having soon so we can give it a once over.Maybe a twice over too.DG


Okay, thanks bud, I'll be there to help out too (maybe work on Capt's nose if not finished yet)

A little final note, so the problem was loose nuts all along, always swaying to the right under power because it was lined up wrong that way (but work better for that time).
When Mike did the alignment it was really swaying from side to side now because it was lined up straight now (as it should be), but didn't check rear end and missed the loose nuts.

By the time Patrick and Clynt checked it out, the nuts where well on it's way looser to a danger zone and I didn't even know it, I was so surprised!

That's the story so far, sad but true, it started long before and everyone missed it, I'm not blaming anyone, things happen that way sometimes.





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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:31pm

Originally posted by Car-2-Lo Car-2-Lo wrote:

By the time Patrick and Clynt checked it out, the nuts where well on it's way loser to a danger zone and I didn't even know it, I was so surprised!

Worthwhile mentioning one more time...

Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those self-locking nuts to get that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop.

In other words, there's little doubt the bolts were already that loose while John's car was in Mike's shop.

Anyone can make a mistake. However, the fact that Mike refused to double-check anything after John complained is unforgiveable.

Mike's irresponsible brush-off could've led to our good friend John being killed.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Car-2-Lo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Originally posted by Car-2-Lo Car-2-Lo wrote:

By the time Patrick and Clynt checked it out, the nuts where well on it's way loser to a danger zone and I didn't even
know it, I was so
surprised!


Worthwhile mentioning one more time...


Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those
self-locking nuts to get
that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop.


In other words, there's little doubt the bolts were already that loose while John's car was in Mike's shop.


Anyone can make a mistake. However, the fact that Mike refused to double-check anything after John complained is unforgiveable.


Mike's irresponsible brush-off could've led to our good friend John being killed.


 



Thanks Pat, but that's okay, at my age I'm ready for the bone yard, but RAM-BUNK-SHUSH has to live on



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 1:08pm

Originally posted by Car-2-Lo Car-2-Lo wrote:

That's okay, at my age I'm ready for the bone yard, but RAM-BUNK-SHUSH has to live on

It's debatable how much longer you or RAM-BUNK-SHUSH might've lived on (if you continued to drive the car) with the way that ball joint was flopping around.

Fortunately for Mike, you appear to be taking this very lightly. This is however, serious business. Other people in this situation might've had Mike and/or his shop charged with Gross Negligence.

The very least Mike should do is apologize profusely and refund what you paid him for the "alignment".

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bassman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 12:38pm

Wow...I know I have not been around much, but I have had success with Dales, and taking almost 30 minutes to read this post, I would give this guy a shot based on my car spec and the bonus that he's only 15 minutes away from me.

Dales know my car, I had one issue, but they bent over backwards, fixed the problem, then when I had to replace my upper ball joints...only charged me $100 cash to do this.  Now to me that's good business, but it has to go both ways...you treat people with respect, 99% of the time you will receive this back and all parties can be happy.

Cheers...

Brian (Bassman)

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[IMG]http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u243/Bassman68/BassmanSignature.png">
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Capt Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 2:32pm

 

          Well Brian get your car in there and give us some feedback.  Might want to get it aligned with the slicks on the car, just so they have a better reference point when they set it up.

Capt Fiero
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bassman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 7:07pm

lol...I am like John with all new, steering pulls a little left is all I need fixed, and more track days this year so my 17" Enkei's will be the wheels this year, next year I'll get those KUMHO V710 ( http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=8&a mp;ptn=V710)

Or the V700'S which are a 50 treadwear and have tread wear I can drive to and from and not get busted:)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Romeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Originally posted by Dr.Fiero Dr.Fiero wrote:

 the song

Yikes, sounds like the type of music that Tristan would use in a car video!

 


LOL! So long as he doesn't do this, after all my hard work.
Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Romeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Car-2-Lo Car-2-Lo wrote:

Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Originally posted by Dr.Fiero Dr.Fiero wrote:

 <SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; TEXT-
DECORATION: underline">the song</SPAN>


Yikes, sounds like the type of music that Tristan would use in a car video!


 



Ministry sound like Butthole Surfers (I have first CDs), yeah Surf's UP !

They do sound a little like BS, you're right. =P
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2010 at 12:19am
Originally posted by Romeo Romeo wrote:

Originally posted by Car-2-Lo Car-2-Lo wrote:

Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Originally posted by Dr.Fiero Dr.Fiero wrote:

the song
Yikes, sounds like the type of music that Tristan would use in a car video!
Ministry sound like Butthole Surfers (I have first CDs), yeah Surf's UP !
They do sound a little like BS, you're right. =P

They should. From the comments at YouTube: 

"...it's Ministry FEATURING the singer from Butthole Surfers."   

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Capt Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2010 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Bassman Bassman wrote:

lol...I am like John with all new, steering pulls a little left is all I need fixed, and more track days this year so my 17" Enkei's will be the wheels this year, next year I'll get those KUMHO V710 ( http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=8&a mp;a mp;ptn=V710)

Or the V700'S which are a 50 tread wear and have tread wear I can drive to and from and not get busted:)

 

I like the sound of that Brain, (Next Year)  congrats on deciding to keep your racing career alive.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Romeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2010 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Originally posted by Romeo Romeo wrote:

Originally posted by Car-2-Lo Car-2-Lo wrote:

Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

Originally posted by Dr.Fiero Dr.Fiero wrote:

the song
Yikes, sounds like the type of music that Tristan would use in a car video!
Ministry sound like Butthole Surfers (I have first CDs), yeah Surf's UP !
They do sound a little like BS, you're right. =P

They should. From the comments at YouTube: 

"...it's Ministry FEATURING the singer from Butthole Surfers."   

 


Ah. I totally knew that. Whatever... lol
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Car-2-Lo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2010 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Bassman Bassman wrote:

Wow...I know I have not been around much, but I have had success with Dales, and taking almost 30 minutes
to read this post, I would give this guy a shot based on my car spec and the bonus that he's only 15 minutes away from me.


Dales know my car, I had one issue, but they bent over backwards, fixed the problem, then when I had to replace my upper ball
joints...only charged me $100 cash to do this.  Now to me that's good business, but it has to go both ways...you treat people with
respect, 99% of the time you will receive this back and all parties can be happy.


Cheers...




I had success with Dales too (loose lock nut) !

I had success with Mikes too (loose ball joint nuts) !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFMLyZ23Wc

I only had one issue with each shop LOOSE NUTS, no one bent over backwards (I even offered them cash), but UNFORTUNATELY when it only goes
one way, now to me that's bad business...I treated those shops with 110% respect (I even made a nice video, sure they're nice to you, only to find
00% back when they screw up (or should I say when they don't screw the nuts up))
and only one party is happy.

Here's the nice video I made... I did treat Mike with respect only to find he's to proud that he failed (to check loose nuts).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g

Thanks Bassman for the tip, next time I'll try to be a little nicer

For the record: after all of that, I did apologize for the bashing and edit and cleaned up the thread, I only posted the facts without bashing anybody.
I still like Mike and his followers and again I'll take Bassman's advise..Oh I forgot, he's going to Dale's....


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