West Coast Fieros Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home ยป Technical Topics Forum ยป Build Threads
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 3.5L LX9 Swap into ’86 2M6 4 speed
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

3.5L LX9 Swap into ’86 2M6 4 speed

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
Message
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 11:15am
Originally posted by CFoss CFoss wrote:

I don't think there is a Canadian business
that sells them, but I don't really know. I've never seen
it.$33 is really excessive for a small super light part.
What form of shipping did you choose? I use usps, and
slow is good for me which usually makes it cheaper. 
Maybe phone those guys and see what they have to say.


On the website I selected the cheapest option (USPS).
UPS (1 x 0.6lbs) is listed as $76.15.

Originally posted by CFoss CFoss wrote:

You can't use blm's exclusively. You can
use them in closed loop if you want, but not in the power
(fuel enrich) areas. In these areas the coorect a/f ratio
is too low for the narrowband o2 to measure, and
therefore blm's are not updated.You can borrow my ostrich
no problem. I have to tune my own ride what I finally get
it ready, but it's a 3rd car so I'm pretty flexible.


When I tuned my LT1 swap, I just disabled PE mode to tune
these areas and it was successful. However the tune was
already much closer to being correct to begin with
anyway. I know a wideband is definitely the way to go.
It might be possible to borrow one from a friend who's
car is parked right now anyways but I don't think his has
an output for datalogging (just a gauge).

Originally posted by CFoss CFoss wrote:

One sugestion, you could use $59 (Sy/ty
updated code) which is pretty easy to tune and has all
the stuff for forced induction should you choose that
route later. You would have to grab a 3bar map sensor.
You are going DIS right? I suspect you have no choice
with the intake. I'm pretty sure they have the settings
available to do it.Check out code59.org.It's what I'm
tuning with for the turbo, so I'm totally biased.Chay



I'll look into it. I do happen to have a TGP turbo set-
up that I'm trying to sell right now but if I am unable
to sell it I may decide to use it on this engine in the
future.
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 11:19am
Originally posted by CFoss CFoss wrote:

I think it might be worth it if you can find
an obdii code that runs lean burn/wideband 02 for the extra
fuel economy. Also, I think the logging output is vastly
improved with obdii.SFI doesn't do you any good except for
a cleaner idle. Big deal.Chay


Doesn't the $A1 OBD1 code have a lean burn/highway mode
already?
Back to Top
CFoss View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Quote CFoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 11:26am
To be honest, I'm not familiar with that code.

Does it have wideband code in it?

C
86 SE 3.4
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 11:39am
Not that I'm aware of, but there's at least one hacked
version of it and it looks like it has wideband ability, in
addition to having MAP tables with smaller (and I'm
assuming more accurate) increments, and the ability to tune
for much higher revving. It's called nAst1.
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 2:37pm
Just finished the first step of the wiring harness;
repinning the ECM connectors. On the second page of
instructions, the first direction is to connect a wire to
the A/C pressure sensor (5V reference). I'm assuming since
I don't have A/C I won't need this wire. However in the
7730 pinout this wire is a 5V reference for the TPS sensor.
I just want to check and make sure that the 5V reference
for the TPS sensor will be provided with another already
existing wire.
Back to Top
CFoss View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Quote CFoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 3:48pm
These kind of questions...try to get a hold of a schematic for a car that used the '7730 instead of just a repin table. Then you will understand what you are doing.

Like this one: 1991 corsica 3.1:




It seems like what you are talking about is pin A4 (Also known as BA4) which feeds power to the map, and ac pressure sensor. If so, just omit the connection to the ac sensor and you will be fine. Likewise on the ground (B5, or BB5) which is the ground for the tps, iat and ac sensor.



Chay
86 SE 3.4
Back to Top
CFoss View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Quote CFoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 3:57pm
Having reread your question, it looks like the on the '7730, BA4 and BA5 are both +5 ref.

The table you are working from shows you are supposed to change C14 from the old ecm to BA4 of the new ecm. C14 is the +5V connection to the tps and map, which you are then hooking to the BA4 +5 on the '7730. BA5 is therefore unused in the '7730.


Chay
86 SE 3.4
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 4:18pm
Ok that's what I thought thanks
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 2:01pm
Ok I ordered the G1 package from Moates today, they told
me they could ship it regular USPS for $12.95; they are
going to refund the money from the $33 shipping charge.

I started wiring in the LX9 fuel injector/MAP/CTS harness
today and just had a few things I would like to clarify.
The Fiero harness has two IGN power sources for the
injectors, one for each bank, while the new harness only
has one source. I figure if I just use one of the Fiero
wires (INJ 1), I can just double the fuse to a 10A and
delete the other INJ 2 power wire. Also, I can just take
the ECM signal wires for 1, 3, and 5 and 2, 4, and 6 on
the new harness and splice them into their corresponding
single wires on the Fiero injector harness. The
remaining CSI wires on the Fiero harness are deleted.
MAP sensor wiring is pretty straightforward, 5V
reference, signal, and low reference (ground). CTS I'm
thinking I'll run a 3-wire sensor, have two wires running
through the existing LX9 harness, and have the third wire
going to the gauge seperately.
Back to Top
CFoss View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Quote CFoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 3:24pm
Re: Shipping costs...that's a bit more like it!

Re: 10 A fuse: Just make sure that the wire guage is up to it. 10A should be a #16 at the minimum, #14 prefered. If you splice as you've explained above, split 3 injector wires to the +12 harness, and 3 to the ecm switched ground wire that'd be optimal. Then you should have lots of current capability.

What's a CSI??


The guage and ecm coolant temp sensors are separate on the fiero. Don't mix the 2 circuits would be my advice.

The ecm is just a variable resistor which is between an ecm pin and ground. The ecm measures the current flow and determines a temp.

The guage circuit should be untouched??

It looks like this:




The ecm one looks like this:



Chay
86 SE 3.4
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 3:52pm
CSI=cold start injector no longer used with a 7730.

The power wire for the new injectors in the lx9 harness is of a smaller
gauge than just one (either inj1 or inj2) injector wire from the fiero
harness. I see no reason the wiring should be overloaded. IIRC the
fiero wire was 14 gauge.

As for the CTS, if I used the 2.8 gauge sender on the new engine that
means drilling and tapping another hole for the sender. Some newer
60*V6s use a 3 wire sensor where 2 wires are exactly like a 2 wire ECT
sensor and the third wire drives the gauge, so it's basically just two in
one. This route means I would take the third wire on the new sensor
and splice it into the 2.8 sender wire.
Back to Top
CFoss View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Quote CFoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 6:02pm
Ah yes, the good old csi.

14 guage should be fine.

Cool on the CTS. I've not seen a 3 wire, but it sounds like you have it fingered out!

C
86 SE 3.4
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 6:41pm
I did want to ask about the gauge sender though. Obviously one wire
on it is the gauge signal, but what's the other wire for? Is it for the
warning light in the gauge cluster? Or is it just a ground?
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 7:50pm
Oh and I also meant to ask: would the now unused INJ 2 wire be a
good power supply for a heated o2 sensor?
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by bcampbell bcampbell wrote:

I did want to ask about the gauge sender
though. Obviously one wire
on it is the gauge signal, but what's the other wire for?
Is it for the
warning light in the gauge cluster? Or is it just a
ground?


To answer my own question it appears that one wire is the
gauge signal and one is the warning light switch. I should
just be able to leave the warning light switch wire
unwired.
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2012 at 12:33am
Just did some reading up on codemask $59 and it looks like
most people running it have boosted engines. For the
foreseeable future I plan on keeping this engine N/A so
I'll probably just stick with $A1. If I wanted more power
I would probably be more inclined to do a cam swap to
maintain some form of fuel economy.
Back to Top
CFoss View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Quote CFoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2012 at 4:47pm
$59 just give you the option is all.

I was running it n/a and it worked well. Nothing wrong with the $A1 though.

The o2 sensor...not sure. It's just amps and awg though, nothing special.
I don't know how much o2 sensors draw.


Chay
86 SE 3.4
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2012 at 12:04am
Nice thing about the heated o2 sensors is that my engine
came with 3 of them. So if one doesn't work I should
still have one that does.

I'm probably going to make a trip to Port Angeles on
Monday or Tuesday to grab at the very least a flywheel
and a knock sensor. Those items are each $100 here and
about $100 combined there so I'll be saving plenty. I'll
also try to grab a 3 wire CTS, radiator hoses (using 3400
swap part numbers mentioned on 60degreev6.com) and a 2001
vette fuel filter. Maybe some fuel injection hose as
well.

Wiring is mostly finished now, I've changed the pigtails
for the TPS and IAC, wired in the knock sensor using the
fan switch pigtail, and connected the wires for the
computer fan control. I still have to do the DIS wiring
and crank sensor. Question about the crank sensor: does
the twisted pair of wires have to be twisted the whole
length of the wires? Cuz where the pigtails connect I'm
not sure it's gonna want to twist perfectly... I've
started routing the wires around the engine but want to
get it back in the car to get everything perfect. I'll
loom it up after I get the engine started.

I'm thinking to mount the coils I'll use the 3500
mounting bracket and drill holes for the 3400 coils and
ICM.

Back to Top
CFoss View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 February 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Quote CFoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2012 at 6:11pm
It's unlikely a bit of untwisting will hurt.

The idea of a twisted pair is that it radiates less noise, and also rejects incoming noise better than parallel run wires.

Try to maintain the same number of twist per foot as the original. A bit or error here or there should be fine.


Chay
86 SE 3.4
Back to Top
bcampbell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Quote bcampbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2012 at 9:36pm
Ok so I went to Port Angeles and stayed overnight with
friends there. I spent almost $200 on parts and didn't
get charged any duty so that was nice. I ended up
getting a vette fuel filter, flywheel, oil cap, idler
pulley (one of mine was broken), oil filter (wix), crank
sensor, 3-wire CTS (for 97 Grand Prix, in case anyone is
wondering), and a new front engine mount. When I called
on Saturday they said they would hold a knock sensor for
me but it wasn't there when I arrived. Oh well, I'll
probably find a couple in a JY and hope one of them
works.

Today I installed my flywheel and clutch, I also bolted
up the 2.8 starter; it comes very close to touching the
oil pan but I don't see it being a problem, I just need
to get a shorter bolt because one of the 2.8's bolts is
too long for the new engine. I cleaned up the inside of
the 4 speed's bellhousing and installed the new engine
mount on the cradle. I'm about ready to mount the engine
to the cradle. I couldn't find a part number for a pilot
bearing and didn't see a bearing in the 2.8 so I'm
assuming that the 4 speed manual doesn't use one.

I also found out that a Canadian Tire pickle fork makes a
perfect clutch alignment tool:



Some pics of the old flywheel vs new and the friction
surfaces:

Thickness of the clutch:






I found out the 2.8 spark plug wires work fine where I
mounted the coils. They're a little on the short side for
one side but they're not being stretched so I think
they'll be fine (NGK). To mount the coils I drilled
holes in the 3.5 mounting bracket and used nuts to secure
the bolts. The original mounting bolts are still in-tact
in case I want to go back to the 3.5 coils in the future.

I did want to ask if anyone knows what this port in the
rear side valve cover is for:

I'm assuming it's for PCV, but the other side valve cover
already goes to just behind the throttle body so I'm
wondering if anyone knows where the other port goes.
Could I just put a breather on it or does it require
vacuum?

Edit: Found out it just needs filtered air. I'll
probably put a breather on it.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.