Hey, I was wondering a few things about big brake upgrades. I had been looking at the West Coast Fiero brake section ( http://www.westcoastfiero.com/brakes/brakes_12.html - http://www.westcoastfiero.com/brakes/brakes_12.html  ), specifically the bottom set. They're twelve inches, and I was wondering how that would affect daily drivability. Secondly, they're $440, when the others are all over $1000, is there a reason why anyone can figure out? Lastly, how much does it cost to replace the standard, weak-brakes (Rotors and pads) the Fiero ships with. Any answers would be greatly appreciated, as my Fiero is in dire need of new brakes soon.

My calipers are still in tip top shape (Surprisingly) so apart from that, is it much more expensive than a standard new rotors/new pads set-up?

And sorry, I'm a bit of a noob (And by a bit, I mean completely): What's the LeBaron set-up?

Just go and grab this - problem solved.  Although the add is a bit misleading, the stock Fiero brakes are 9.75" all around.  What he is selling is a very nice complete brake kit, and I know the seller.  Its a fair price for what he is offering.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pts/1132259541.html - http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pts/1132259541.html

Unfortunately, you can't just go out and buy that conversion, as you need very specific parts like the brackets.   The only "cheap" brake upgrade that can be done is the Grand Am conversion, however you lose your parking brake.

          I recommend against doing front only Grand Am conversions as you will end up with really bad lock up on the fronts before the rears are doing anything.  Want to get an idea, na I won't recommend this, but imagine if you were to use vise grips on your rear brake lines, take your car out to say 80kph and try to stop in the rain, darn near impossible to do with any short distance in mind.

Bassman wrote: That's what I have David, you helped me install...lol, and I race...certainly dependent on the driver

Brian your situation is kinda the odd man out, you and your car are setup with race tires and racing in your blood.  Your front tires are sticky enough that that won't lock until you are really hard on the brakes, and by that time the rear calipers are finally doing something.  I'll bet you do still end up with one front wheel locking up before the rears do though.  In my 85GT with stock type front brakes and good pads with grand am rear brakes and moderate pads, when I hammer the brakes, All 4 lock up at the same time.  Under moderate braking situations, I feel the rears start to grab before the fronts, its like someone dropped an anchor out the back of the car.  I personally prefer a slight rear bias to the brakes, I always run a larger rear tire and usually have removed any extra weight in the front of the car, so I want the rears to be working quicker than the fronts.   When I do the front Grand Am's I'll be removing the spring in the proportioning  valve completely. 

  I would track down Austin he was working on a Cadillac brake conversion that is very similar to the brake setup that Tim was selling.  May have very well used the same callipers and rotors, just have to locate the brackets from someone on Pennocks. 

Edit for Spelling

The same Austin who went on the run with us? Auto-Cross-Austin?

How would one go about contacting him?

If your rotors get any more worn, you'll be having to drag your left foot out the door to slow down!

I'll just use-engine braking down to first gear, then throw it into fourth so it stalls.

Although I'd much prefer not to get to that point, of course. lol

Romeo if it gets that bad, that you are in danger of destroying parts due to lack of pads.   Arrange a time to come by here, we can go through my garage and then zip down to the storage locker, I am sure I have a bunch of stock brake parts.   It'll be no charge thing as I still kinda feel bad about how that lower ball joint turned out.   I don't do much with the stock brakes anymore as I already have Grand Am rear on my Fiero 87, Lisa has Grand Am / Corvette Front on her Fiero and I'll be doing Grand Am Front on my 87 shortly after it hits the road.

Ooops sorry been really busy lately, trying to catch up on replying to all the new posts.  Good to see the club is getting really active again!

Anyway I've got a shopping list with part #'s for doing the 11.25" 'Lebaron' brake upgrade.  I'm going to have to start looking seriously into it soon as my pads are starting to get thin as well.  I've currently got the GrandAms on the fronts only which definately are a worthwhile upgrade from the stock solid non-vented rotors.  They stood up to the test of Mission roadcourse well enough.  The stock solid rotors definately don't cut it as I found out a couple years ago.  I still managed to get the stock non-vented rear brakes smoking though lol.

I started to collect a few parts like caliper cores for the 11.25" upgrade but that's about as far as I've gotten so far.  Once you've got the part #'s it's just a matter of going shopping and you'll also need the adaptor brackets.  I've got the CAD drawings of them as well that you could take to a machine shop to have made or you might be able to find someone on Pennocks that still makes them.

I could email or if you use MSN add me mailto:Austin_sod@hotmail.com - Austin_sod@hotmail.com

Aus

Romeo wrote: Nah, don't feel bad about the lower ball joint, it was an honest mistake. And are you sure you'd be willing to part with those things? I don't think you understand the severity of the situation: All four corners and nearly gone, calipers, rotors and pads. lol

        Well let me know when you want to come out, and we'll see what we can do.

Austin wrote: Anyway I've got a shopping list with part #'s for doing the 11.25" 'Lebaron' brake upgrade...

Austin, is http://myfiero.oceanmoon.com/?p=475 - This what you guys are talking about?

Austin wrote: Ooops sorry been really busy lately, trying to catch up on replying to all the new posts.  Good to see the club is getting really active again! Anyway I've got a shopping list with part #'s for doing the 11.25" 'Lebaron' brake upgrade.  I'm going to have to start looking seriously into it soon as my pads are starting to get thin as well.  I've currently got the GrandAms on the fronts only which definately are a worthwhile upgrade from the stock solid non-vented rotors.  They stood up to the test of Mission roadcourse well enough.  The stock solid rotors definately don't cut it as I found out a couple years ago.  I still managed to get the stock non-vented rear brakes smoking though lol. I started to collect a few parts like caliper cores for the 11.25" upgrade but that's about as far as I've gotten so far.  Once you've got the part #'s it's just a matter of going shopping and you'll also need the adaptor brackets.  I've got the CAD drawings of them as well that you could take to a machine shop to have made or you might be able to find someone on Pennocks that still makes them. I could email or if you use MSN add me mailto:Austin_sod@hotmail.com - Austin_sod@hotmail.com   Aus

Hey, I could totally use those CAD drawings, my old highschool has a 3D cutter which cuts from CAD and RHINO drawings. That's some small way I can help I suppose. =)

Romeo wrote: Hey, I could totally use those CAD drawings, my old highschool has a 3D cutter which cuts from CAD and RHINO drawings. That's some small way I can help I suppose. =)

Romeo, I don't know yet whether what I found is what these guys are talking about, but if it is, have a look at the bottom of the link in my last post.

Yeah that's pretty much the list cept there has been a more recent discovery on the calipers.  Use of the noted 'Blazer' calipers vs the 'Camaro' ones allows the bleeder screws to be on the correct top position:

4 each   Raybestos P/N 7993 11.260" Vented Rotors (rear, 89-94 Chrysler LeBaron)
1 each  CarQuest  P/N 18-4071 Front Caliper, rebuilt, 82-92 Chevrolet Camaro (note 1)
1 each  CarQuest  P/N 18-4072 Front Caliper, rebuilt, 82-92 Chevrolet Camaro (note 1)

 or
 from 4WD '83-'94 Blazers.
 The left is CarQuest P/N 18-4129 and the right is CarQuest P/N 18-4128 for unloaded calipers.
 The loaded caliper P/N's are 16-4128(9) for right and left, respectively.

 Do NOT get 2WD calipers. Those are exactly the same as the F-body calipers.

1 each  CarQuest  P/N 18-4138 Rear Caliper, rebuilt, 80-85 Cadillac
1 each  CarQuest  P/N 18-4139 Rear Caliper, rebuilt, 80-85 Cadillac
   (These calipers must be identified with casting Nos. 020 and 021)
8 each  Caliper bolts
2 sets  CarQuest  P/N D-154 Disc Pads (Front and rear are same)
1 each  CarQuest  P/N 2218 Master Cylinder, (92-94 Chev/GMC Blazer/Jimmy) Aluminum, 1.125" bore
4 each  3/16" X 24" Teflon stainless steel braided brake hoses.  (Stock hoses are too short)
4 each   Earls P/N 600773 .400" Banjo fittings for above
4 each  Earls P/N 989534 Female 10mm X 1 adapter ends for above
4 each   1/4" AN-type rubber insulated clamps (to secure brake hoses)
10 each Dorman P/N 610-323 Wheel studs, 12M1.50, X 55mm X 12.67mm knurl diameter wheel studs for front hubs.
2 each   Caliper adapters for front, (burned, drilled and tapped 3/8" steel plate)
2 each   Caliper adapters for rear, (burned, drilled and tapped 3/8" steel plate)
4 each  12M1.50 X 40mm Hex head cap screws for front adapters.
8 each   12mm or 1/2" Split Lock washers for 12 mm bolts
4 each   12M1.50 X 25mm Hex head cap screws for rear adapters.
4 each  1" Round X .500" X .435" thick spacers for front caliper adapters.
4 each  .060" thick SAE flat washers for rear caliper spacers.
2 each  E-brake cable housing stops (burned and drilled 1/4" plate)
1 quart  SAE 3 or better Brake Fluid
1 each  12M1.50 Starting tap
1 each   27/64 High Speed Twist Drill

Re-used Materials

4 each  Banjo fitting bolts from Fiero calipers
2 each  Front hub assemblies, modified with the disc rotors machined off to leave hub flange approximately 5/8" thick.
2 each  Fiero E-brake cable return springs.
1 lot  Fiero E-brake cables.

Romeo wrote: Checked with the highschool, they said it should be fine. Austin, I'll need the CAD sketches, as well as what metal type you'd like. I'll also email the both of you the details.

Another set of drawings I have specify the caliper brackets to be cut using 3/8" Mild Steel.  The Ebrake Stop is 1/4" Mild Steel.

     I'd just like to be the first to say, if he does not take them, I'll take the 2nd shot in line.

Anyone interested in doing a brake conversion might wish to have a peek at http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/046895.html - This thread in the Mall at PFF.

Well I just got the rear caliper adapters from Ron,  which is perfect for me seeing as I am going to take the Rear Grand Am parts and simply move them to the front, so all I really needed was the rear brackets.     The ones that are listed in the thread Patrick Referenced seem to be a really good deal considering the quality of the brackets. 

         I am going to source as many of the core parts for testing over the next few months and go from there.   

      Ron I know I saw your brakes installed however did you by chance take many pics?    If you did, would you mind dropping them in an email to mailto:capt@captfiero.com - capt@captfiero.com and I'll post them up here for people to look over.  With next weekend being the Tech Session, the weekend after that is Arlington and the weekend after that being the All Pontiac show.n  I can see it being nearly a month before I really get started on locating the conversion parts to do this.  

Hey Dave, here's what I had been referring to: http://www.westcoastfiero.com/brakes/brakes_12.html - http://www.westcoastfiero.com/brakes/brakes_12.html

Go down to the bottom kit, the Corvette 12" kit, and look at the price. It's $440 for both axles, although the stock calipers are used, meaning people such as Nigel would have to find new ones. However, it still fits the Fiero hub (Although 15" rims wont fit around the large brakes) and later on down the road, two-piece rotors can be applied to cut down on weight and decrese brake fade.

Sorry, on that same topic, you can also get the 13" brakes from the Dodge Viper, which fit in the same manner the Corvette ones do and still allow for e-brake in the same way the Corvette's do for $742, on this page: http://www.westcoastfiero.com/brakes/brakes_13.html - http://www.westcoastfiero.com/brakes/brakes_13.html

              That cheap price is for the 4 rotors and brackets and does not include the calipers or lines.  You must supply 88 calipers on all 4 corners and 88 hoses.   I'd have to even research it to see if they can be used on early model cars.

Romeo wrote: That puts a dent in that plan.

Tristan, with money as tight as it is for you being a student and all, why are you even considering any kind of a brake upgrade?

I realize you need to repair your brakes, but wouldn't it be a whole lot simpler (and cheaper) to just re-do what you have with stock off the shelf (or off a donor car) parts?

And then you could afford to pay someone (and/or some shop) to replace your clutch.