Hello, I missed getting to the meeting tonight in order to become a member. but my problem is: I have a 1987 2M4 that i've been trying to get started for over a year now. I put anew fuel pump in it, changed the filter, i have spark , changed the fuel injector , but it still will not spray. The is no voltage at the injector with the ignition turned on. Checked the fuses, fuseable links, every connector that i can find, and had ab aviatiion mechanic try and figure out the wireing.  Is it the ECM of the POM?

I live in Langley...

thanks Rob  

Rob N. wrote: I have a 1987 2M4 that i've been trying to get started for over a year now.

I think it's been a little longer than you recall.

Rob N. wrote: Posted: 02 March 2008 at 4:42pm | IP Logged       hello, I've got a 1987 2.5L sadan,  I have never posted to a Forum before...not sure how it is done??

Do you hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds when you turn the key?

Does the engine crank over when you try and start it?

If you spray starting fluid into the throttle body, will it start?

I'm just trying to determine what else might be messed up as well.

hi, yes it has be over a year, lost track of time..

I hear the fuel pump pressuring up

when i turn the key to the start position there are 3 lights on , oil ignition 7 eng,

it cranks over, ok  all the lights go out, the oil pressure goes up.

the injector doesn't spray.

I've tried having someone put small amoounts of gas in the injector body and it back fires.

Ive ckecked the wire to plug and it is correct according to the books.

it has the high energy dist. so it can't be 180 deg out.

i don't know if the ground wire is ok or not. 

Dr.Fiero wrote: Does the check engine light come on with key just 'on'?

Rob N. wrote: when i turn the key to the start position there are 3 lights on , oil ignition 7 eng

What does "7 eng" mean?

Rob N. wrote: it has the high energy dist. so it can't be 180 deg out.

Well, being an '87 duke it has NO distributor, right?

John (Dr Fiero) is more knowledgeable than I am to walk you through the power to injector issue.

Hi, ok sorry , there are only 2 lights on when i turn the ignition to on:

Brake and Battery.  eng check light is not on.

the voltage at the injector is .220 volts

blue wire is ground ok.

red wire has the  .220 volys but it flucuates up and down.

Something else, the ECM is out of an S15...

One thing I can suggest is to have a look at the bulbs in your instrument panel to make sure they're all good. 

There's no point informing us that your Check Engine light doesn't come on when it's actually the bulb which has burnt out.

Thank you for all your help. I think I spok to you at the all pontiac show in south Langley last year.

The previous owner used to push start the car, but it did run with this ECM, I don't know it the PROM is from the Fiero or the S15.

What's a CEL?

Battery voltage when charged is 12.85 v But it's now on charge again. I'll replace the fuses indicated and report back.

Rob

Rob N. wrote: What's a CEL?

Check Engine Light

Hi,

I've replaced the : "gauges" fuse (10 amp) & "ECM/Ign" fuse (10 amp) and replaced them. 

No improvement. the Check Engine Light does not light with the Bat & Brake(emergency?) light.

The ECM is pn 1227748 and inked on it is  CHEV 89 53001855.

I confirmed that the previous owner used to push start it because the battery he had was almost dead. then the fuel pump went.

I'm wondering if this ECN has the right POM.

Lights work, fan, all that stuff.

Any more thoughts on the subject? 

Hi I tried taking the cover off the EMC but it had some sort of tamper seal on it. Car is in my front yard so I'll have to ckeck if it's AKYN1234

The reg says 87 , VIN    1G2PE11R9HP241145

By "pull the connector " do you mean access the connector behind the cigarette ligter pannel ? If yes, Il'' try that tomowrrow  

The CEL was working last year because I got the test code 12 when grounded.

if not that , I guess Ill have to rip the dash apart .

thanks...Rob

Did you ever have a look at the CEL bulb to make sure it was okay?

Patrick wrote: One thing I can suggest is to have a look at the bulbs in your instrument panel to make sure they're all good.  There's no point informing us that your Check Engine light doesn't come on when it's actually the bulb which has burnt out.

OK, I'll find which of the 4 connectors on the ECM has a Pin C2 (Brn/Wht)wire. The are a lot of connectors on this thing and a ton of wires.

Next I'll tackle the bulb change, But I have a bad feeling you are right and it has the wrong POM and possable a dead ECM .

Question: if the ECM is dead would the old paper clip trick in the diagnostic link still work?
 

Hi, it's me again, by the way is there somewhere on this site that has a membership form?

The two plugs on the side of my ECM are the same width, the upper one is black, the lower one is white. Both are numbered 1-12 and 13-24 on either side.

However, I did the jumper wire in the ALDL connector of A & B terminals and got nothing...last year is flashed the 12 over and over.

No I haven't pulled the dash to check the bulb. You must have realy skinny hands to be able to reach up in behind the dash.

The POM by the way is pn ACMH9544  and not the pnAKYN1234 that is should be..

any ideas about replacing it? 

Sorry to be such a bother, but this car is getting close to the wrecker all the time.

Rob

Rob N. wrote: No I haven't pulled the dash to check the bulb. You must have realy skinny hands to be able to reach up in behind the dash.

"reach up"?

Ummm... there's nothing unusual about the size of hands required to take the back of the instrument panel pod off. The screws on top are obvious and easy to get to, and there's two screws underneath, one on each side.

Once the back is off, all the bulb sockets are in plain view.

Rob N. wrote: ...by the way is there somewhere on this site that has a membership form?

No, ya gotta come to a meeting. Take a chance, we're not a bad bunch.

Hi again,

ok, I actually managed to remove the rear inst clusted housing! & yes, they are easy to get at.

checked all the bulbs & had 1 dud in the tac.

Grounded the brown wire /white stripe..nothing.

It seems like most of your meeting fall on an event day of my medieval club (SCA). So I've found it tough over the last 2 years to get to one.

Thanks , Rob

Hi I'm back..

OK I found a pink/black wire on the back of the dash and with the key in the on position it reads 12.85 v

Yes, when I grounded the wire the key was on.

I tugged on the fuseable links, but i had checked their continuity with the ohm meter and they were ok. Would it be better not to keep those fuseable links?

next?   

Update!! after all that yanking on the fuseable links, I tried the key on , and this time i got an engine check light!  so I tried to turn the engine over and I think the injector is sort of working as it back fired a few times & I could see fuel in the throtle body, no fray mind you. 

Killed the battery again. seems slow turning over even with a charged bat.

Also, every wireing dirgram for the High voltage ignition has the #2 & # wires reversed? the diagram your site is reveresd too? The poles are numberd and I've matched the cyls with it.

Thanks...I'll try and be at your Apr meeting... so you can bat me about for a while.

ok, I'll pull the ground wire off, clean the lug, and bolt it goes to on the engine. 

should I replace the fuseable links or just get rid of them?

if the starter is drawing the voltage down below 10 volts , where would I measure it on this car? I would normaly measure the draw at the battery.

If you hace the chlton book p 2-9 4 cyl DIS it list from the top down on th coils 2 3 4 1

p 3-22, they are listed 3 2 4 1

My ciols have inkek marked as 3 2 4 1

so which is right?  i

I tried reversing 2 &3 and it back fires both ways  ?

Ok, I prefer inline ones that I can check. do you know what the apmerage should be?

Battery is on charge again it was new last year.

OK on the 2 & 3 I didn't know they worked either way.

I'll clean the grounds, and the two studs near the battery

Is there an easy way to get the old fuel out? It must be 1- 2 years old by now.

Rob N. wrote: Is there an easy way to get the old fuel out? It must be 1- 2 years old by now.

I ran my '84 on gas which had been sitting in its tank for five years, although I did also add a full jerry can of gas to the tank.

Before I actually ran the engine, I disconnected both fuel lines at the TB and spliced them together with a short piece of clear hose clamped in place. Then I jumpered the fuel pump terminal in the ALDL connector on the console and watched the fuel circulate in the clear hose to make sure there wasn't weird looking stuff (chunks of rust, frogs, etc) being pumped through the system. Basically I was checking to make sure the fuel filter was doing its job. (I didn't want to replace the fuel filter with a new one until after the old filter had grabbed any/all particles of crud floating around in the tank.)

If you're concerned about using the fuel in your tank because of possible water contamination for example, jumper the fuel pump terminal and simply aim the disconnected fuel supply hose into a gas can. Disconnect the power to the terminal as soon as you see the supply of gas start to slow down. You don't wish to run the fuel pump dry.

If you do end up with a gas can of mixed water and gas, the gasoline will float on top of the water. If you're careful, you can pour the gas out into a second container and then add it back to your gas tank (or use it in your lawnmower).

tahank you good Doctor. I think I'll replace with correct fuseable links.. Dealer or lordco?

I'll check the bat voltage cranking it over, then I'll try cranking it over again with a battery booster and see what happens.

Thanks for the chart it looks much simpler then the one in the oh manual.

Hi, I tried the battery booster and when cranking it over the volts dropped to 10.25.Could the starter be drawing the amps/volts and starving the ecm?

on your wireing diagram, there is a fuseable link between the starter and the cold start switch /injector/ecm why the thin dashed line? what does it mean?

Asso when you use a jumper wire between the A & B terminals on the ALDL connector to count the flashes on the engine check lite... are the shift light and the rad fan suppose to go on?