Was driving back from the US today, enjoying the nice, banked curves of the US roads. 70KM/H... 80KM/H... 90KM/H... Everything was going wonderful. Eventually, in order to keep up with my dad, I hit triple digits while flying through the banks (He had quite a bit of a lead on me, you see). Gretchin was putting up with my tom-foolery, until one fated corner, where she had enough and decided to try and kill me...

Entered the corner at just a nose over 110, a nice 90-degree left hand. Smooth, deep banked, two lane road... Really a wonderful corner to be honest... Immeadiately she backhanded me with a heap of understeer. Not an issue, I know what the slip angle is like, I just turned the wheel an extra half turn and things would work out, but there was still too much understeer to account for. Thus, I decided to just dab the brakes ever so lightly to move the weight onto the fronts a bit more. The method worked, and the front tires bit down hard, and instantly turned the car very sharp.

Alas, now oversteer became the concern.

Well, oversteer is a bit of an understatement. In what can only be described as a heartbeat, her tail-end whipped up hurredly, making her take up both lanes as she whipped sideways. In that heart-stopping moment, sheer panic rushed over me. I almost simply lost my nerve, and didn't react, but if there was ever a case to be made for video games, it is now:

I snapped out of my panic-induced trance and grabbed the wheel and turned it further to make her spin a bit more. Now her backside was actually leading the car. Nerves ablaze I then spun the wheel as far as I could make it go to the right, inducing the front end to whip back around, completing a 360 and sliding her harmlessly over on the far side of the road. The car had of course stalled during the procedure, and I took a moment to calm myself before I fired her back up and drove up behind my dad once again who had apparently watched the whole event under the assumption that was to be my last act on earth.

Fortunately, video-game-derived-hyper-active reflexes saved me from slamming into lamp posts or flying into the ditch. That, and a bit of luck, to be sure.

Here's some friendly advice from a crotchety old man...

SLOW  THE  F*CK  DOWN !!!

Tristan, you know I'm only saying that because I'd like you to live long enough to get old and crotchety yourself.

Nah man, that would be NO FUN AT ALL. Nah, in all seriousness, it was a bit of a wake-up call, I probably will knock of a little bit of the speed in the corners, at the very least until the car is safe (Shocks, brakes and sway bar are all in working order).

Graeme wrote: Just try to imagine not only yourself on the roads and that there may be others that want to make it home alive.

Excellent point.

Tristan, you and I are buddies in this club. You're a great guy and a lot of fun to be around.

However, real life isn't like some stupid video game where if you screw up you just reboot and start over.

Will you please smarten up and start driving responsibly before you kill yourself or worse yet, some innocent bystander!

Well...need to have a little chat as this old fart will chew your ear out also!.  I started to autox and track, but invested time to learn and conduct myself in a mature manner...take it out on tbe track and not the street and learn how to handle your car...by what I read, you have NO IDEA how to drive!...need to know Gretchen and how to control her!:)

Saying that, I do hope to see you out at the next PCA autox which I already posted for many for Fiero owners to come out...imagine this a club event, except the go cart is your car:)

Advicate of track not street racing, you have a lot to offer to this world, do NOT want to see it run short!...Smarten Up:)...lol

I know, I probably wont get into auto-X for a while, can't afford the fees. As for the whole "not dying" thing, I am giving that very strong consideration.

Yeah, I have mediated myself back to limit in the streets, limit plus a bit when there's other drivers on the highway, and limitless on open highways, that way I'll only off myself in the absolute worst-case-scenario.

Romeo wrote: As for the whole "not dying" thing... ...I'll only off myself in the absolute worst-case-scenario.

You have a narrow focal point. How's the rest of your life in a wheelchair appeal to you?

Expensive...as Colby said above and honestly....getting really tired of the excuses made that it's expensive...it can be if you get into it as I have, or come out as Colby for $40 and maybe 1/4 tank gas...5-6 1 minute runs really eat up your gas:)...NOT!.

If you went out for a basic dinner with another, a movie,...a basic outing you spend $40 easy...Ah let me think...$40 on autox and learn many things or DEAD!...easy choice:)

Not going to beat this up:)...drive safer is all we ask, I think you realize many here care otherwise there would have been no replies:).

T

Take it to the TRACK

M

Gee away from my computer for a while and see everyone jumping on the don't' drive fast bandwagon. However that does not bother, I have spoke up driving within a persons or cars limits in the past, what I think bothers me the most is seeing everyone jump down on Romeo.  We have all driven fast at one time or another in our lives.  I think most of us have spun a car around at least one, and  I don't think there is a single adult male on this forum that when they were in their teens did not drive like a maniac at least once.  Hell I see many of you posting in here, that I KNOW still have a tendency to drive with a lead foot.

At one time I had to figure speeding tickets into my monthly budgets.  None of us own 2 seat sports cars because of there practicality either, or else we would all be driving 4cyl Hybrid Econo Box's. 

        Romeo made a mistake by driving beyond either what his car or he was capable of, however don't make him feel like he made a bigger mistake in telling us about it. 

Hey David...as I noted to T and I am sure he's not taking us for real other than peeps who care for him.  There are choices and he was honest to share an experience, and we are offering other choices...not just to take it to the track, just think twice before you step on that throttle and redline:)...and other choices can be affordable...we'll chat T, the offer is there still to co-drive my car and we can chat about funds:)...call me an we can discuss

Good thing I called you to make sure you did not head over in the afternoon...I did the 1st round and packed up, too tired for the last two...too much driving this weekend:)

Capt Fiero wrote: ...what I think bothers me the most is seeing everyone jump down on Romeo.

What would bother me the most is seeing an empty seat at the next club meeting where Tristan used to sit.

Dave, please don't criticize the rest of us for caring about Tristan enough to try and save him from himself. It's not like he drives responsibly all the time and this was a one shot affair. He drives like an idiot (sorry Tristan) most of the time from what I've witnessed. He needs to change his driving habits pronto or he's just an accident waiting to happen.

Tristan, just because I want you to gain and meet some real cool peeps, learn and have fun...you can co-drive with me in my car, you'll luv the clutch...if yes we can work something out...

You can budget for "treats" like this for yourself, I am sure as we all can, look at what we spend on (i.e. Starbucks each day, pack of cigs, a beer afterwork, etc...) and adjust and save for reg fees and get it out of your system...lol

To all...we all do care for each other and may share how we do this is many ways...we can all learn from this today, and you seem to have many friends in this club that care Tristan

Aw hell, there's always some new up-and-comer lined up.

In any case, your assessment of my driving, while accurate, comes from a skewed perspective, as we often drive like numbskulls on the club runs. My normal driving (Had been) for the most part, sensible. As I admitted, as of lately I've sort've been ignoring that threshold of safety, but that is something I can correct. I'm not trying to get all defensive and riled up, just explaining myself.

Not to be outdone by a Dawg, the Toad will throw in the other $20 so Tristan can enter and race his own Fiero.

I wanna come watch though.

Bassman wrote: Patrick, I'll take ya for a ride also, chit, you can bring your car in and race:)

Brian, I'd like to try it this coming weekend, but there's one catch...

I'm dog-sitting Frankie for the next three weeks and I can't leave her at home all day alone. Is there any shade at the track?

Seeing as how Gretchin has virtually no shocks left, and is still riding on 10 degrees of toe in the front, and five degrees of camber in the back, I don't think that'd be $40 well spent boys, but I appreciate the offer.

Wouldn't mind going on and navigating (See: Backseat driving) with Brian, if only to annoy the daylights out of him.

"Hey man, can I put my feet up?"
"I feel like we've been here before..."
"Are you sure you're not lost? Seems like you're going in circles..."

Romeo wrote: Seeing as how Gretchin has virtually no shocks left, and is still riding on 10 degrees of toe in the front, and five degrees of camber in the back, I don't think that'd be $40 well spent boys...

Yet that didn't stop you from trying to take that corner yesterday at over 110.

Can you now understand why we're a wee bit concerned about you?

Romeo wrote: Seeing as how Gretchin has virtually no shocks left, and is still riding on 10 degrees of toe in the front, and five degrees of camber in the back, I don't think that'd be $40 well spent boys, but I appreciate the offer.

Brian already offered to let you co-drive his car. I think he needs someone to help warm up his tires anyway.

Patrick, the only shade there is provided by tents. If you are driving, you'll also have to work the course (run after fallen cones) part of the time. The guys there are pretty nice though, I bet you could find someone there to look after Frankie for you while you're working. There's also a chance you can get out of having to work.

Thanks for the info Colby, but it might be best to just be a spectator if I can make it out to the track this weekend.

I realize that taking a dog to a car track isn't the greatest idea, but it's either that or unfortunately not go at all. Racing my own car as well would probably be pushing things a bit. Frankie's head sticking out of the passenger window would totally ruin the aerodynamics.

Patrick wrote: Romeo wrote: Seeing as how Gretchin has virtually no shocks left, and is still riding on 10 degrees of toe in the front, and five degrees of camber in the back, I don't think that'd be $40 well spent boys... Yet that didn't stop you from trying to take that corner yesterday at over 110. Can you now understand why we're a wee bit concerned about you?

Joking aside, yes, I do understand some of your concern. Someone has to make you guys seem younger. =P

T...read what I posted, WE drive my car, YOU drive your car and park it and meet us at Mac D's on Harris Road & Lougheed at 7:30am Sunday August 8th...

Pat, there are shaded areas with the trailers that are parked there, many bring their dogs and let them rest there...if we get there early enough we can park in that row, so won't bring my canopy, less to pack:)

Again T, let's talk, and if you are not comfortable or not available this date, then we can plan another time next season.

Cheers...Bb

Romeo wrote: I'm young, and if there's one thing the media has taught me over the years, it's that young people never die.

Tristan, you apparently still consider this a black and white issue - dead or alive, despite my less than subtle hint posted earlier.

Patrick wrote: You have a narrow focal point. How's the rest of your life in a wheelchair appeal to you?

As my friend, please do me a huge favour and read http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17508770/ - THIS .

Seriously, please read the whole article and keep it in mind the next time you goose the throttle and drop the clutch in a less than optimal situation.

There is a lot that I have learned in the last few years since getting into racing, once thing is for sure and is a common statement:

"There are three types of driving, Street, Performance, and Racing...no matter what one may think of their driving skills, if they have no professional instruction...you DO NOT know how to drive...and this is proven daily on our streets".

I have a perfornance driving school I am attending on August 12th, I have taken 2 autox courses, and many coaches on the track who have sat with me and taught me many skills over the last 3 years...ask Kerstin, my daily driving is so much safer and enjoyable now as I have an outlet:)...

Since I have started, I have tried to share every experience in hope that some of those in our club that have a lead foot can maybe think about their actions, and realize there are options where one can enjoy in a safe and cost effective way to enjoy our cars...some have been interested, but not as many a I hoped for...There are a few of us that are offering Tristan an opportunity to break out of his bad habits...so one day at a time:)

T if it was me in your position with the offer from Brian I would be jumping all over it like a fat kid on a smarty.....

Romeo wrote: I have every intention of headin' out as a navigator/co-pilot/dead-weight with him some time, but Gretchin wont be going for a little while, not until I have some things corrected on her, otherwise she wont even be competitive (Or safe, I guess).

So is this a NO for this Sunday August 8th?...can Gretchen get you to location?...if so YOU ARE DRIVING MY CAR!!!!...wtf are you not getting, man I want to Biatch slap you...

Na...hop in, STFU and drive...lol.  Our our morning ritual is breakfast, be relaxed, network with a lot of good drivers, walk the course, check all the lines, apex, braking, when to turn, etc...plan your attack and learn how to visualize driving...you can get to a state when in grid you practise your run in your mind...you are a Fiero owner with the same clutch pretty much, you just achieved 99.9% of the challenge

Haha, unless you've got the following:

ATROCIOUS alignment.
No rear sway-bar.
Barely any braking power.
No shocks left.
Buggered high-performance clutch

...Then it'll take a little while to adapt to it.

Ok, come when you can make it, I'll take you for a few runs, you see what's going on and take it from there...Patrick, same, just even come out for a visit and the dog is welcome, lots bring their dogs.

Going to the BC Driving Center in Pitt Meadows Airport.  Head on Lougheed to Pitt Meadows, Right on Harris Road, the another right on Ford Street...stay on Ford and you will see the gate entrance on the left side.

Cheers...

Bassman wrote: Patrick, same, just even come out for a visit and the dog is welcome, lots bring their dogs.

Sure Brian, I'll come out... hound and all.

I'd love to be able to drive my car, your car, any car on the track on Sunday, but seeing as how I'll have the dog and I've never even been to an autocross event before, I'll settle for watching this time and seeing what it's all about. 

Should I also meet up with you at the McDonald's early, or do I just find my own way to the track and then look for Tristan spinning out in your GT?

A little musical interlude. Click...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My5ub7qV2EM - Here .

By the way Brian, something criminal has occurred with the image you're using for your avatar.

It's gone from this...  ...to this...  ...

Romeo wrote: ...When?

Seriously asking When???...back up in this post and read a little

Bleh. lol

Bassman wrote: Based on the weather forecast for RAIN...

Well that sucks.

I take it then that rain puts a real damper on autocross events?

Bassman wrote: ...just how I felt at the time...lol

Yeah, dealing with Tristan often has that effect. Just ask Ainsleigh.

Patrick wrote: Bassman wrote: ...just how I felt at the time...lol Yeah, dealing with Tristan often has that effect. Just ask Ainsleigh.

Painfull may be a better descriptive

Bassman wrote: Patrick wrote: Bassman wrote: ...just how I felt at the time...lol Yeah, dealing with Tristan often has that effect. Just ask Ainsleigh. Painfull may be a better descriptive

Kids, eh!

Romeo wrote: You're both dead next meeting.

That's a rather ironic statement considering that Brian and I are doing our best to prevent YOU from possibly ending up in that condition!

Someday buddy, you'll be wanting to thank everyone who expressed their concern with you.  

There is a freedom on the track also, call it peace of mind knowing that you will not hurt anyone else as SAFETY is the number one concern.  The drivers course I am taking next week, the number one thing they will instill and want to hear is "what's the number one thing in mind always"..."SAFETY!!!".

Take it off the streets, street racing is old book and I think as a club many here are mature and support this.

I'll be honest, Arlington scares me...we should be cruising and enjoying being together and not split and race in the groups, also not good for the club reputation...

Graeme wrote: Just read this in the paper this morning. Same lesson to be learned by one more loser who didn't make it this time just last weekend: http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/mapleridgene%20ws/news/99700614.html - http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/mapleridgene ws/news/99700614.html

In case this news report link stops working, it's worthwhile printing it out here as it certainly pertains to anyone who believes they're invincible while behind the wheel.

---------------------------------------------------------

Fiery crash kills one
 

Sheldon Streiling, 19 was pronounced dead at the scene after his Mitsubishi Eclipse crossed the centre line and slammed into a Hyundai Sonata travelling east.

The car burst into flames, trapping the Pitt Meadows resident inside.

A couple from Mission, in the Hyundai, were taken to Royal Columbian Hospital. The man was treated and released but the woman remains in hospital with serious injuries.

An initial investigation by police has determined that speed and aggressive driving by Streiling were contributing factors to the fiery crash.

Insp. Derren Lench said the Mitsubishi was westbound on Lougheed Hwy. and swerved to avoid a turning vehicle.

It then slid backwards into the eastbound lanes, striking the Hyundai.

"Several independent witnesses have been interviewed, corroborating the chain of events," said Lench.

Lougheed Hwy. was closed for seven hours while the RCMP's Lower Mainland District Integrated Crash and Reconstruction Section investigated.

"Please, slow down, share the road, so we all can get to where we are going in a safe manner, and no other loved ones have to receive the type of news this local Pitt Meadows family had to this weekend," Lench added.

According to ICBC statistics 2005 to 2009, there is an average of 1,780 crashes, resulting in 500 injuries and three fatalities during the B.C. Day long weekend.

Streiling loved cars and was studying to be an auto service technician at the British Columbia Institute of Technology.

A Facebook memorial for him is titled "Sheldon passed away doing what he loved the most - in his car."

He had just bought the bright red Mitsubishi sportscar.

A memorial for him is scheduled for Aug. 14 at First Memorial Funeral 1340 Dominion Avenue in Port Coquitlam.

[EDIT] Wow, I just noticed this:

"Streiling loved cars and was studying to be an auto service technician at the British Columbia Institute of Technology."

Tristan, did you know this fella? (Wouldn't that be a helluva coincidence.)

It really brings a personal touch to the above news story when you go to the young fella's Facebook page and read in his own words how excited he was to be getting his car on the road...

http://www.facebook.com/sheldon.streiling?ref=search#!/sheldon.streiling?v=wall&ref=search - Sheldon Myles Streiling

And then you see his memorial page on Facebook put up by his grieving parents...

http://www.facebook.com/sheldon.streiling?ref=search#!/event.php?eid=142604272425560&ref=mf - Sheldon passed away doing what he loved the most - in his car

What an unnecessary waste of a young life.

I can't believe no one has brought up the 3 that were killed this morning. Friday at aprx 3:30 am a BMW with 4 males aprx 40 years of age were traveling at an excessive rate of speed, and plowed into the back of stopped tractor trailer when they went the wrong way through the construction zone just east of 176th street exit on Trans Canada Highway.  Reports estimate the speed at 160kph, 3 men died at the scene and the 4 has been taken to the hospital with serious injury's. 

I'd say the first mistake was going through the construction zone at 160kph and the 2nd one was not reading the signs and going into the construction zone rather than staying on the correct side of it.  Unfortunately that 2nd mistake was their last.  

        As to the 19 year old that died, it says he was trying to avoid another car that turned in front of him, and then was traveling back wards?  I am curious as to the situation and how it happened.  They also did not mention "how fast" he was actually going.  To simply say speed was a factor, could mean he was going as little as 10kph over the limit.  If the other driver was at fault for not yielding the right of way, I would be looking for charges of manslaughter. 

Now as gruesome as this is going to sound, if I die tomorrow or 50 years from tomorrow, I think I would prefer it to be behind the wheel of my car and not of a stroke or other age related death.  However it does not matter how you look at it, 19 was far to young to leave this world.

RIP and may your afterlife be filled with an endless drift circuit.

Sheldon sounds rather identical to myself. Died with what he loved: his car. Don't know him by name, but there was two Mitsubishi Eclipse's I know belonged to people I saw there and chatted with on a fairly regular basis. If one is missing, I'll know why.

The guys Dave mentioned deserved it. It's a construction zone, people could step out at any time.

I gotta say, interesting to see how much this catalyzed the club, but I don't much regret our actions at Arlington. If memory serves, the club did slow in the presence of traffic, both by choice and necessity. Once again, that brings about my golden rule of crashes taking out only myself.

Romeo wrote: Sheldon sounds rather identical to myself. Died with what he loved: his car.

Oh good gawd, please don't try and make it sound somehow noble or heroic. He was just a young guy with a fast car and a heavy right foot.

Romeo wrote: The guys Dave mentioned deserved it. It's a construction zone, people could step out at any time.

So the passengers all deserved to die as well? You know for a fact that they were all in complete agreement with what the driver was doing?

Romeo wrote: I don't much regret our actions at Arlington. If memory serves, the club did slow in the presence of traffic, both by choice and necessity.

I seem to recall two club members in particular screaming down the right hand lane on the three lane (each way) freeway doing close to 200 kph while passing dozens of other motorists.

I'm sorry, but idiotic stunts like that make our whole club (because we all get implicated through affiliation) look absolutely bush league.

Dr.Fiero wrote: /Humor on I for one would prefer to die quietly in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.... /Humor off (this thread was getting morbid - had to be done)

John, nobody likes kidding around in a thread more than I do, but the seriousness of the topic necessitates the morbidity. One or more fellas in this club really need to reassess how they drive on public roads and highways before something very ugly and unfortunate occurs.

Car-2-Lo wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUASiDg-kg4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUASiDg-kg4

So True...reading the words to that songs makes sense in so many ways

Dawg wrote: Wow.....Patrick!  I'm sorry but you need to learn when enough is enough.  We ALL get the point, really.  I'm not sure if brow beating is getting the message through in the way one would like. This is not a Ford Model A club.  It's a Fiero club.  A two seat mid engine sports car. No one is being pressured to do anything they are not comfortable doing.  The day David makes a rule that there will be no speeding at any club runs is the day I stop participating in them frankly. Driving in general is dangerous period.  I was MUCH safer on the Arlington run than in morning traffic any day of the week. It's all relative.  Why not try and get our perspective messages across without being negative. DG

well said

Fire451 wrote: Dawg wrote: Wow.....Patrick!  I'm sorry but you need to learn when enough is enough.  We ALL get the point, really.  I'm not sure if brow beating is getting the message through in the way one would like. This is not a Ford Model A club.  It's a Fiero club.  A two seat mid engine sports car. No one is being pressured to do anything they are not comfortable doing.  The day David makes a rule that there will be no speeding at any club runs is the day I stop participating in them frankly. Driving in general is dangerous period.  I was MUCH safer on the Arlington run than in morning traffic any day of the week. It's all relative.  Why not try and get our perspective messages across without being negative. DG well said

I need to remind all of us...Tristan & Patrick are very good friends

And...we have our own opinions and maybe this post is going off track, it could have gone private, but we are all having a good chat about some important topics, I hope no one is taking what I say personal, I am sharing what I am learning...so do what you want with it, let's keep this open and not personal 

Dr.Fiero wrote: /Humor on I for one would prefer to die quietly in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.... /Humor off (this thread was getting morbid - had to be done)

Chit...missed this post by Dr., I agree

Dawg wrote: Wow.....Patrick! I'm sorry but you need to learn when enough is enough. We ALL get the point, really.

Well, I’m sorry Damien but it appears to me that we "ALL" don’t get the point. I’m still seeing rationalizations being posted for driving like nutcases.

Dawg wrote: This is not a Ford Model A club. It's a Fiero club. A two seat mid engine sports car.

So, what’s that supposed to mean? That car clubs with "sports" cars capable of going 200 kph (or more) should be encouraging members to do that speed on public roads or highways during club cruises?

Dawg wrote: No one is being pressured to do anything they are not comfortable doing.

For some people, peer pressure is immense.

Dawg wrote: The day David makes a rule that there will be no speeding at any club runs is the day I stop participating in them frankly.

You might be surprised how many club members aren’t participating in club runs presently because of the excessive speeds and questionable driving by some members.

Dawg wrote: Driving in general is dangerous period. I was MUCH safer on the Arlington run than in morning traffic any day of the week.

I don’t know where the heck you drive in the morning, but I suggest perhaps you start taking the bus!

Dawg wrote: Why not try and get our perspective messages across without being negative.

Okay, I’ll offer the boy a lollipop if he slows down.

Look, I speed as well. I don’t deny it. I admitted to going 170 kph on an occasion or two for very short spells on the way to Arlington. However, I sure as heck was pretty careful picking my spots.

Damien, I’m not the only one here who’s speaking up with their concerns. Perhaps I might be more blunt than some other club members, but nothing I’ve stated shouldn’t have been posted IMO.

If I didn’t say anything and a club member died as a result of excessive speed, I’d always regret not speaking up.

Well, I’ve now said what’s on my mind.

And if there’s a chance I’ve offended someone in the process, sorry, but to me it’s worth the risk.

Bassman wrote: I need to remind all of us...Tristan & Patrick are very good friends

Tristan's a fun guy. I enjoy his company at club functions a lot. I'd hate to see him do something stupid and not be around for future club functions.

Two years ago my best friend dropped dead. I had been good buddies with him for more than thirty years. I was crushed when I heard the news. I'm still not completely over it.

I don't want anymore of my friends dying, unless it's of old age.

Patrick wrote: Bassman wrote: I need to remind all of us...Tristan & Patrick are very good friends Tristan's a fun guy. I enjoy his company at club functions a lot. I'd hate to see him do something stupid and not be around for future club functions. Two years ago my best friend dropped dead. I had been good buddies with him for more than thirty years. I was crushed when I heard the news. I'm still not completely over it. I don't want anymore of my friends dying, unless it's of old age.

Cheers

Ok a couple quick bits. first off, about 5 or 6 years ago, this topic was a very heated fight between members, and the club almost split up over it.  A few people wanted slow drives, a few people wanted unlimited top speed runs.  The people in the middle were ready to leave the club just because of the pissing match between the 2 groups.   We did "try" the slow drive route, and there are a lot more people that said Nope, and refused to come on the runs if they were slow than people people that refused to come on fast runs.   This club was formed by a bunch of street racers.  Yes we have grown up over the years, but the people that have been here the longest are the people that never lost the sense of "fun" in driving these cars.  

    Now as to the post that was between the lines directed at me.  You can call my driving anything you want, dangerous, reckless, its whatever you want to think, its your opinion.  However please don't ever tell me "how" to drive.  As trust me, you will get farther trying to convince a Mac owner to use Windows just because its more popular and its an industry standard.  

          We started the leap frog layout on runs so that "everyone" has the opportunity to drive the way they wish and still be part of the group.  I think we did an excellent job on the Arlington Run, everyone that I spoke to, said they had a blast.  I asked over and over again, if anyone felt that anything should changed.    I'll be the first to admit that a few of us on that run went "over the top" in terms of top speeds.  However I won't say its not going to happen again, and in fact I am  sure it will happen again. 

      Our club, is one of the most active clubs in North America, and for one main reason, we are all here to have fun.  One of the founding principles was and always will be, "Be Nice" no bitchy, mean people allowed.   I don't want to ever see a member be uncomfortable or  leave the club because he is being put down for any reason by another member.

Everyone can have an opinion and that is great for people to speak up with their opinion, however its not right to try and force that opinion onto anyone else.

     On a side note, for Patrick or any of the members of this club, I am always open to people setting up runs.  If you want to stand up and plan a "Speed Limited Run"  you are more than welcome to.  If there is a need and desire I am sure it will be a great success. 

Bassman wrote: I need to remind all of us...Tristan & Patrick are very good friends And...we have our own opinions and maybe this post is going off track, it could have gone private, but we are all having a good chat about some important topics, I hope no one is taking what I say personal, I am sharing what I am learning...so do what you want with it, let's keep this open and not personal

Yes, as you said, I am glad the discussions are open, and I do hope that people do not take other's opinions so personally that they don't feel welcome in the club. I wont deny that I will drive my car very fast again, likely during a club run, but again I will go to every length possible to go back into my old routine of risking my life alone. And I think David made a very good point about the leap frog procedure, and it did allow for the members who didn't wish to go fast to do the speed limit, and those of us with a death wish to go just slightly over the speed limit.

Romeo wrote: It's all a facade. Once the club goes away we become very abusive towards one another. He calls me mean things.

Oh baloney.

By the way you dummy, go back and edit your post as the quotes are all messed up.

[EDIT] Finally, you fixed it. Took long enough.

Capt Fiero wrote: This club was formed by a bunch of street racers...the people that have been here the longest are the people that never lost the sense of "fun" in driving these cars.

So are you suggesting that people who take it to the track are no longer having "fun" driving these cars?

Capt Fiero wrote: Now as to the post that was between the lines directed at me...

Which one? By my count, there were eight of them. Some by me, some not. And I wasn't even the first person to make reference to you.

Capt Fiero wrote: ...please don't ever tell me "how" to drive.

Other than my very first post where I suggested to Tristan that he "Slow the f*ck down!!!", I have not seen a single person tell you (or Tristan) "how" to drive in this thread.

Capt Fiero wrote: Everyone can have an opinion and that is great for people to speak up with their opinion, however its not right to try and force that opinion onto anyone else.

To be honest, I don't know how that would even be possible. None of us that I'm aware of in this club have the power to take over the free will of others.

Capt Fiero wrote: I don't want to ever see a member be uncomfortable or leave the club because he is being put down for any reason by another member.

I believe we covered this previously, but if you're referring to the posts directed at Tristan, nobody is putting him down.

If you're referring to the posts that may be directly or indirectly aimed at you, nobody is putting you down either. We'd just like to see Arianna's daddy stick around for awhile longer.

And if by chance you're referring to Devil Dawg Damien's post criticizing me... don’t worry, I’m a Pennock’s O/T veteran and have skin the thickness of rhinoceros hide.

Patrick wrote: Oh baloney. By the way you dummy, go back and edit your post as the quotes are all messed up. [EDIT] Finally, you fixed it. Took long enough.

Patrick wrote: So are you suggesting that people who take it to the track are no longer having "fun" driving these cars?

No, I believe he's saying unless you enjoy experiences high g's and watching life whip by at over two hundred, you arn't having fun. Whether it be track-based or not, you can't tell me puttering around in a car that seems blatently uncomfortable for people who don't like laying down while they drive sounds especially pleasurable.

Patrick wrote: Which one? By my count, there were eight of them. Some by me, some not. And I wasn't even the first person to make reference to you.

lol... You counted. Classic.

Patrick wrote: Other than my very first post where I suggested to Tristan that he "Slow the f*ck down!!!", I have not seen a single person tell you (or Tristan) "how" to drive in this thread.

Bah, so because I'm a couple years younger I get told how to drive? That's age-ist man.

Patrick wrote: To be honest, I don't know how that would even be possible. None of us that I'm aware of in this club have the power to take over the free will of others.

Speak for yourself, I have hypno powers.

Patrick wrote: I believe we covered this previously, but if you're referring to the posts directed at Tristan, nobody is putting him down. If you're referring to the posts that may be directly or indirectly aimed at you, nobody is putting you down either. We'd just like to see Arianna's daddy stick around for awhile longer. And if by chance you're referring to Devil Dawg Damien's post criticizing me... don’t worry, I’m a Pennock’s O/T veteran and have skin the thickness of rhinoceros hide.

Does this give me permission to continue to harass the daylights out of you at the club dinners?

Romeo wrote: Does this give me permission to continue to harass the daylights out of you at the club dinners?

Buddy, if you weren't there to do that, the club meetings just wouldn't be the same.

LOL!!! I would've operated under the assumption you would enjoy a respite from my constant over-analysis of fringe technologies and constant bickering.

Naw, look at all the fun we're having getting the whole club into an uproar.

We just want to keep you alive and healthy to entertain use old people.  Aaaa but I remember when!!!!!!!!!    Just have fun in your life whatever you do. Oh and alway keep us posted on your latest project (date). Keep an ear to what people say but do enjoy your life,as we I'm sure all wish for you and each one of us to be safe and health!!!!!

redwilley