air care issues
Printed From: West Coast Fieros
Category: Technical Topics Forum
Forum Name: Technical Questions and Discussions
Forum Description: Got a technical question about your fiero? ask it here.
URL: http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=873
Printed Date: 24 November 2024 at 1:59am
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Topic: air care issues
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Subject: air care issues
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 11:02pm
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Hey everyone, As some of you know I just purchased Smurf's 87 SE. today I took it in to be air cared and it failed ... rather badly. during the idle test the hydrocarbons (spelling?) were four times the max allowed. Smurf said that he passed with below average readings after the engine mods, any ideas on what might have changed? might sitting for almost a year have had a significant effect? Thanks, Ryan |
Replies:
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 11:06pm
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Is the engine running smoothly? How old is the cat?
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Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 11:08pm
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It seems to be running fine, I'm not sure how old the cat is, but I know it was the one in a year ago, and its only had approx 5000k on the car since, also the cat doesnt look rusty or anything, looks fairly new.
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Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 11:19pm
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The readings for the test were: driving test: Hydrocarbons allowed: 226 reading: 109 average: 135.50 carbon monoxide allowed: 1.64 reading: 0.34 average: 0.84 Oxides of Nitrogen allowed: 2378 reading: 378 average: 1181.5 Idle test: Hydrocarbons allowed: 301 reading: 1178 average: 39 Carbon Monoxide allowed: 3.54 reading: 0.55 Average: 0.04 |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 11:48am
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From those readings, it looks like Smurf installed #19 injectors in there. If he did you will need a custom chip or smaller injectors. Also I would replace the O2 sensor while you are at it. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: CFoss
Date Posted: 04 October 2008 at 9:46am
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Don't know if you fixed this yet, but those readings are consistent with either overfueling at idle, OR misfire. Check your PLUGS!!! If the running results are ok, then it's probably not an o2 sensor. Why the large injectors idea? Is it an overbore/stroked engine? Anyway, the fueling is tough to fix, either smaller injectors as suggested, or a variable fuel pressure regulator turned down, but no so much as to affrect fueling at the top end. AND, you'd have to drive it for a while after the change so the ecm can resolve the new BLMs (Fueling constants) so don't change the stuff and run back to airscare right away, go for a long drive with varying engine load points to maximize your chances of success. Chay ------------- 86 SE 3.4 |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 05 October 2008 at 6:01pm
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Hey CFoss, thanks for the responce, The engine has large injecors because its been bored out, along with other mods. If it was a missfire wouldnt that be obvious by it not running well? Thanks, Ryan |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 05 October 2008 at 6:05pm
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Oh, and I think im going to be doing a tune up, check the timeing and hopefully get a custom chip burned, (its still running on the stock chip). Hopefully that will fix the problem. BTW, any suggestions on what I should buy for the tune up? would high performance parts be of much benifit? if so what brands? Thanks |
Posted By: CFoss
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 12:11am
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A new chip will definatley fix an overfuelling problem if that is the situation. You just have to get it right! I agree, one would think that a misfire bad enough to cause that reading would be detectable. I had a car which would missfire inconsistently, and was hard to pick up by ear. Standard parts should fix your problem if it's ignition related. Their real limitation is supposed to be rpm related, not energy related, unless you're running a turbo, which you're not, and certainly not at idle. I'd do cap, rotor, high tension leads and plugs (Check gap!), and maybe ig. module. But, before wasting your money, do the custom chip/injector change. Sounds like that is the problem. I don't think the engine needs bigger injectors until it's a 3.4 at the very least. You have what you have though, and if you want to add a turbo later you're in good shape for a moderate charge. Anybody out there have a set of injectors they could lend out??? They're not that hard to get to. That would be the cheapest, quickest and easiest way to discriminate between the two issues. Chay ------------- 86 SE 3.4 |
Posted By: CFoss
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 12:21am
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One more thing I just thought of, it could be an injector stuck open. It doesn't quite fit the symptoms, so it should be last on the list of stuff. But, if you get to the injectors, may as well check them out...It's simple. Get the plugs off then clip 12 volts across the 2 pins (battery charger or lead from the battery {carefull!}) for a short time, repeatably. It should click audibly. I've found the ones that aren't working will not click. If the fuel rail is intact and pressurized you can hear the residual pressure venting through the injector. Re pressurize by turning the key on, but not to start, the ecm will get the fuel pump to reprime the fuel rail. Chay ------------- 86 SE 3.4 |
Posted By: bill
Date Posted: 07 October 2008 at 6:04am
Ryan, many people make the mistake of thinking about bigger injectors like they used to think about bigger carbs - if you improve the engine, you need bigger ones. But injectors aren't like carb jets, which only have one size of orifice. The injectors have quite a wide range, and if you fit too large injectors in an engine that can't use the fuel at minimum opening duration at idle, you get a rich condition that nothing can cure but going back to the correct injectors. FWIW, the Miller Woods turbo, which kicked the stock 2.8 from 135 BHP to about 210 BHP ran perfectly with stock injectors. I doubt that whatever you have done to the engine will require any greater air flow than a turbo would. OTOH, is surprises me a little that a fairly modest bump in size to 19 lb. would result in an incurable rich idle. The stock 3.4 ran 17 lb. with no such problem. So you might look to something else - get the thing on a diagnostic machine and look at what the opening period is to see exactly what the problem might be. And if you still have the smaller injectors, maybe put them back in, as the larger ones will be giving you no advantage whatsoever. |
88FormulaFiero wrote:Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 07 October 2008 at 1:17pm
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Ok just filling in a few blanks here. Ryan is running Ford 19# injectors, which are rated at a diffrent fuel pressure than GM rates there injectors. Ryans injectors are equal to GM 24# injectors. The stock chip in the Fiero is not programed to reduce the idle pulse width of the injector short enough. With a custom chip, it can and does work very well. I know I ran 19# Ford Injectors in my 85 2.9 GT which is pretty much the same build as Ryan has in his car. Bored out, big cam, mild porting, and other tweaks. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 26 October 2008 at 1:12pm
well I think I found out why my emissions may have gotten worse. Got a check engine light the other day and when I pulled my codes it was
(BTW Thanks for showing me how to pull the codes at the tech session Patrick, came in very handy!!!) Which may explain how it passed approx a year ago when Stuart took it in (with same injectors etc) but fails now. So I think I'll start trying to track that down and swap the injectors for now to see how that does. Thanks, Ryan |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 1:15am
I just took my '86 GT through AirCare (and failed The first readings are for '86, the second for '87 (according to Ryan's post). Maximum Allowable Readings Driving test: Hydrocarbons: 218 - 226 Carbon monoxide: 1.53 - 1.64 Oxides of Nitrogen: 2226 - 2378 Idle test: Hydrocarbons: 380 - 301 Carbon Monoxide: 4.32 - 3.54 Why would all but one of the readings for '87 be more lenient than for '86? I would've expected the opposite, or perhaps the same allowable readings for these years. Ryan, are you sure your figures are correct?
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), but I'm surprised the maximum "allowable" readings appear to be different for the '86 and '87 Fiero V6.Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 07 November 2008 at 10:52am
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just saw that you posted this, i'll recheck my aircare paper when I get home to confirm the values. I had always thought the aircare values were the same up untill the 88 when they got more strict. but i guess we'll see when I get home. Edit: well this is odd, looking on the forum i saw where the capt posted the 85's emmission requrements and its a little different again. Driving test HC: 226 CO: 1.6 NOx: 2327 Idle test HC: 385 CO: 4.38
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Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 5:08pm
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went to aircare again today to see if the tune up made any changes, and to see how the solenoid would change things once installed and was rather surprised by the results, in a bad way Several of my readings were worse this time, though all passed again except the idle hydrocarbons. The surprising part is that the idle hydrocarbons were significantly worse than the last test. before they were 1178 and this time 1523. only differences made are that i was running 89 rather than 87 octane and the timing was bumped from 8 to 12 degrees advance. the car seems to be running the same as far as I can tell. going to swap the solonoid and try a few of tricks i've heard the capt mention next time, bump the idle up, 94 octane and the fuel additive, this is after the solonoid, any other suggestions? Oh yeah, Capt, that test at the meeting you did to check if the EGR was working, did that just check if it was there, or if the EGR was actually working properly (minus the solonoid)? BTW, I've been looking for a new EGR solonoid, Lordco quoted 250 something and the fiero store is 150, anyone know where a good place to buy these is? Thanks, Ryan edit: forgot to add, was my first time personally witnessing how bad the air care employees can be Oh and then when giving me the results told me I should fix my car because it kept stalling when he tried to get it moving! Thanks for all the advice so far you guys, and sorry about so many posts in TQ and D |
. First the guy gets in the car and stalls it trying to start the driving test, ok not much of a problem. then cant start the car. So I go out and restart it, this time I watch what he is doing. He puts the car in third and tries to start it, stalls again.... I again restart it and tell him to make sure its in first, that it looked like it was in third. so he gets in and before I could get out there again revs it way up, puts it in third and gets the car going.... I could smell burning clutch for a while after leaving aircare!!!! 
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 6:48pm
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You're not failing on NOX - why are you attacking the angle of EGR solenoid, etc? Sure, they might be causing some issues... but not what you're failing on. High hydrocarbons at idle is TOO MUCH FUEL. Can't say for sure why you have too much (far to many possibles to say 'this is it for sure') - but your EGR solenoid doesn't even come into play until you're moving, and a whole bunch of other things. |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 7:17pm
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oh ok, I thought the EGR solonoid was related to this too. I was going to change it because I got a check engine light and a code 32, which from reading jazzman's post on that code seemed like the solonoid was the most likely culprit. oh, i see. I knew the injectors were too big but I didnt think that they would be the primary cause of the high HC readings, Though there was something else wrong i should fix before tackling that issue. thanks for clarifying this, so for next time i'll lower the fuel pressure some, roughly how low do you think it should be? BTW, patrick, or anyone else did you go to the surrey aircare yet? and if so did they just do the idle test like for the capt? not to eager to let any of them try driving my car again after today... |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 9:49pm
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As I said in my first reply in this thread, the reason you are failing on HC is the injectors are too big. If you drop the fuel pressure down to around 30psi the over fueling will be better. Don't worry about spray patterns as the 19# mustang Injectors were designed to run at a lower pressure than the Fiero injectors they are quite happy at 30psi. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 11:02pm
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sorry david, totaly forgot about you saying 30psi. my mind has been a little fryed lately. Thanks again everyone |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 16 November 2008 at 11:22pm
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I also failed, for the exact same reasons, and I did a few things and it passed wonderfully the next time: 1) Just before the test, pop out your air filter. The car wont be running long without it, so don't panic. 2) Upgrade or replace the electrical if it's showing it's age. 3) Make sure both the front and rear coolant reserves are full. The stock computer will throw in more fuel if the engine gets hot.
Those three things, combined with some decent fuel, and maybe that "Emissions Cure" from Canadian Tire should all but garauntee you a pass. Heck, if you fail, the garauntee on the EC product will pay off all but three dollars of the cost to take it in to Aircare! Hope that helps. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 16 November 2008 at 11:34pm
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Hey Ryan, this is my Air Care sheet, from my 88GT. Note my idle Hydrocarbons were only 67ppm. I say drop your fuel pressure, make sure you plugs are at least .050 gap. (Stock is .045, the slightly larger gap gives you a bit more spark) I am assuming you have MSD Coil. A good ignition system is crucial to low HC's. High HC's are due to extra fuel being spat out your exhaust. It also means you are wasting a lot gas and getting really bad mileage. My 88GT driving it 100% in town, with my foot to the floor all the time I still get 250kms out of tank. On the highway I get 500kms from a tank driving at an average 120kph. Your motor should have higher compression than mine which should help you out a bit. Maybe you should post a list of what parts and brands of parts you have recently changed in the car. I know you and Patric did a tune up at the club tech session, but I can't remember what parts were replaced.
------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 17 November 2008 at 12:18am
Not yet. I've uploaded a new WinALDL log in my http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=956&PN=1&TPN=1 - AirCare thread , so I'm hoping that the fellas who understand these numbers better than I do can have a peek (before I go back through AirCare) and let me know if everything looks okay or not. |
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 17 November 2008 at 10:32pm
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I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but a damaged or dirty O2 sensor will also cause the engine to put in more gas than it needs. Cherry on top is that they're cheap to replace. ------------- Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 04 December 2008 at 9:46pm
Ryan, I went to the Surrey AirCare facility today and they did the WHOLE shebang, not just the idle test.
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 06 December 2008 at 2:03pm
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Well now that you are running at a low enough fuel pressure, 28psi, the only thing I can think is better spark. Oh and a quick note, the EGR will actually increase your hydrocarbons. When the EGR activates it adds spent exhaust gases into the intake, which reduces the available Oxygen hence reducing the amount of fuel being burnt. So you end up with extra unburnt fuel and a higher hydrocarbon reading. But back tracking a bit, that would only be even remotely important during the drive test. At idle the EGR does not come on. The test I did at the meeting was to physically grab the EGR diaphragm and push it up, when I did the EGR pod opened releasing exhaust into the intake and causing the motor to die, when I released it the car went back to fine, so that pretty much confirms that it is working correctly in the mechanical sense. However it says nothing about the electronic portion of it. If you have not bought an EGR unit yet, I have a box of them you can come and grab one. I usually remove the EGR system on all the Fiero's I work on. Once a year when they need Air Care, I toss in a bottle of Methylhydrate to reduce the nox and call it good. One note, the Methylhydrate can increase Hydrocarbon emissions at idle. If your NOX are fine, I would just leave it out of the mix. The list of things that I would do, (if you have already done them you can ignore) New NGK Rapid Fire plugs, gapped at .050 MSD Blaster II Coil and Good Wires Genuine Delco O2 Sensor Bump timing to 12 degrees. Remove the Air Filter for the test. Check your Intake Air Temp sender, if it is bad, it will cause the car to run rich. Oh when you go to do the test, a trick that works to reduce high hydrocarbons especially in a worn engine, is to remove the Breather tube going from the rear valve cover to the Intake Pipe before the TB. In an extreme case you can even block the PCV valve. Every little bit of bad air you can keep from going into the engine will help. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 06 December 2008 at 9:26pm
I'm confused. Is there a post by Ryan missing?
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 06 December 2008 at 9:37pm
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Sorry it was through various phone and pm conversations. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 06 December 2008 at 10:46pm
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Hey, thanks for the further suggestions tomorow i'm going to replace the o2 sensor, Intake Air Temp sender (was very rusted looking when i checked it) and recheck the gap on the plugs, I cant remember what we gaped them at but I thought it was a bit more than .050. and then run it though air care on monday. hopefully this will work, will post whatever results i get... also any way to check if the Blaster coil is working correctly? Thanks Ryan |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 06 December 2008 at 11:13pm
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Well when you get the plugs out take a few really good high res shots of the plugs and post them here. Specifically the ceramic tip around the electrode. Black means too much fuel or not enough spark, Bleach white means too little fuel, tan colour is correct. Pay special note to tell if all the plugs are the same or not. If you have one that is really radically different than the others, the first thing you should do is a compression tester on that cylinder and the adjacent cylinders to make sure you have even compression and not one odd cylinder. If compression is fine and you have one bad plug, check the plug wire to make sure it is not bad. If the odd plug is bleach white, it means that, that cylinder is running lean, probably due to a fouled injector. Because you have the Mustang injectors, I think a new/reman one is only about 30 bucks from Lordco. (Fiero injectors at last check were about $280 Each.) I was lucky enough once that I had gone out of my way to help a guy clean out his Fiero parts and he handed me a nice brown box with 6 plastic baggies in it, and a receipt for over $2000 it was a set of BRAND NEW injectors he had bought for a Fiero that he no longer owned and had never installed. I just about fell over when I confirmed the part number and prices at Eagle Ridge Pontiac. (we have a club member that works the parts counter there) You also have the option of getting all of them flow tested and sonic cleaned in Langley for about $25 each. In some cases I prefer to get them cleaned, tested and rebuilt as then I know they are perfect and there are no issues. Some new ones have had issues right off the bat. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 06 December 2008 at 11:28pm
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Oh yeah, you've got those fancy expensive plugs with the tiny electrodes, don't you? I don't remember the name of the young fella who was gapping your plugs, but maybe he'd remember what he gapped them at? Just so you know, I use a MSD Blaster coil with NGK UR5 plugs gapped at .060" (as per advice at PFF), and this gap appears to work for me. Stock gap is .045", and .050" as Dave suggests is probably a happy compromise. Did you get a custom PROM burned and installed? Did you do a leakdown test on the injectors?
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Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 07 December 2008 at 5:19pm
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today I installed the new IAT sensor, but did not replace the O2 sensor as it looks "as new". though I did note that it is larger than the factory ones, could it be a wide band o2 sensor? I pulled all of the spark plugs and they all appeared to be a light beige in color, similar color through all of them. the gaps were set at approx .050, one was a bit off but now they are all dead on. I have the pics of the spark plugs but they are too big to upload onto the forum, I can email them to anyone who wants to see them though. I havent gotten a custom prom burned yet, I'm trying to fix this on a bit of a budget right now as i'm not working at the moment and the datalogger is a bit expensive. will deffinitly get one done, but cant afford that much on a datalogger right now, need to find another job first  http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm though I remember someone mentioned an alternative that wasnt as expensive, unfortunatly I dont remember what it was or who suggested it  havent done a leakdown test on the injectors yet, will search pennocks now to figure out how they are done, lol |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 07 December 2008 at 11:41pm
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http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20030204-2-028718.html - http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20030 204-2-028718.html prompted me to test the drop in pressure in my fiero, on mine it primes to 32 psi, by 8 mins its dropped 10psi (to 22) by 11 mins down by 15 then by 18mins down by 20 psi (to 12) http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050818-2-059433.html - http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050 818-2-059433.html I have the same hard starting when the engine is heated up http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050818-2-059433.html - http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050 818-2-059433.html states what one guy thinks the pressure should drop at, hold for 10-15 or drop very slowly So am I right to assume from this that I have leaky injectors (is this a leakdown test you were refering to patrick, the only other mentions involved buying $100 plus testing equipment) http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050818-2-060174.html - http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050 818-2-060174.html (this one is saved for me when I get home |
)Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 07 December 2008 at 11:48pm
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That’s doubtful as the wide band sensors are pretty expensive and not commonly used. If it just has one wire connected to it, I believe it's a narrow band O2 sensor (but I'm not absolutely sure on this). This is what the Delco unit I recently installed looks like... It looks considerably larger than other O2 sensors (which may or may not be Delco units) pictured below from other Fieros of mine. I hope it’s an AC Delco O2 sensor you have, as I’ve read plenty of comments at PFF about how terrible the Bosch units work on the 2.8 in our Fieros.
With your non-stock engine, you may need a custom PROM in order to have the engine running properly enough to pass AirCare.
Why are you thinking of buying a $279 datalogger when you can use an old laptop with a $27 cable running http://winaldl.joby.se - WinALDL (which is a free download on the ‘net)?
If your injectors are leaking you possibly won't be able to pass AirCare.
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Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 07 December 2008 at 11:56pm
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the thing that has me stumped is that the car, with this non-stock engine passed air-care fine 1.25 years ago with the same chip, and now passes everything but one reading which is waaay off. the first 02 sensor picture you posted is the one thats in the car currently, the second style is the ones I'm used to seeing in these cars, When I talked to Dr Fiero about getting a chip burned and told him what the modifications to the engine were he pointed me to that data logger to get the info he needed about the engine. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 12:20am
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Your AirCare readings indicate that raw fuel is pouring into your exhaust system while idling. I’m only going by what I’ve read at PFF myself, but yes, it seems that possibly your injectors are leaking. I don’t know enough about the procedure to suggest what else might possibly explain your fuel pressure dropping the way it does during the leakdown test (although I see that this is covered in your links). Those threads you linked to are pretty good. The PFF member by the name of Dodgerunner in one of the threads is the fella who made the ALDL cable I bought for use with WinALDL. Listen to what he states as he's a knowledgeable guy. I need to run the leakdown test myself, as although I passed AirCare, my mileage is terrible and I suspect my engine is running a tad rich.
Perhaps you should ask John specifically if WinALDL would do the trick. It’s kind of a shame to have to spend almost $300 on a device to gather data to get one PROM burned for your car. Ryan, how about posting the VIN for your Fiero so that I (and anyone else who wishes to be helpful) can have a look at your car's http://www.aircare.ca/inspinfo-get-results.php - AirCare test result history .
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Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 12:27am
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wow, didnt even know you could pull up a history like that 1G2PF1193HP240036 is the VIN |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 12:31am
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Ryan you don't need the Data Logger, just ask John to burn a copy of my old 2.9 chip. Its darn near the same engine as you and fuel maps were set for the 19# injectors as well as timing curve was tweaked to give you a bit more timing at the low rpms when the big cam was killing low rpm compression then as the motor revs up and compression is built there was a 3 degree retard above 3500 rpms to keep it from detonating. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 12:33am
| he said that he still had a copy of your old chip but that it wouldnt work unless I managed to find a good 85 ECM as thats what yours was running on, |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 12:40am
Yeah, it's kind of neat, isn't it? |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 12:42am
| oh yeah, could you guys post your emails or pm them to me so i can send the pics? |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 12:44am
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Geez, I imagine a good 85 ECM would be a helluva lot cheaper than that datalogger! Would an '85 ECM be 100% compatible in an '87
It's in my Profile (at the bottom of all my posts).
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 1:01am
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All Fiero ECMs can be swapped. 85-88 V6's just the 85 had a few good features like you could add a knock sensor for a turbo and such. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 1:19am
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Okay, and I just found out while searching at PFF that PROMs aren't interchangable between the '85 and later ECMs. Your PROM was originally for an '85 ECM, which is why Ryan would need to get an '85 ECM in order to be able to use a copy of your old PROM in his '87 Fiero. Now I get it!
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 1:26am
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Ya even a stock 85ECM is IMHO a better program due to the timing and fuel curve changes. Hence why the 85GT/SE V6 4spd cars are the fastest cars. Oh and the high compression in a factory 85 motor. (8.9 vs 8.5 in later cars) However ya, the 85 ECM has to stay with an 85 Chip, but you can swap the entire ECM and chip into any year V6 Fiero. John sent me the chip and ECM list. I think there were over 40 diffrent chips used in Fiero's. The worst was the California Emissions Chip, the best was the general USA 85 Chip. Its funny how the rated performance never changed in the books however there were a lot of changes in the ECM which made and lost rear wheel HP over the years. Another good note is the 86GT Lace wheel and tire weighs almost double what an 85GT wheel and tire weigh. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: 88FormulaFiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 1:45am
| hmmm... I think i'll order an 85 ECM and get a chip from John, i'll also start trying to figure out how to pull the injectors to get them cleaned and flow tested as you suggested earlier, what is the name of the place in langly you reccomend? |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 2:25am
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I don't have the addy handy, but IIRC Its Diesel Fuel Injection Specialties on the Langley Bypass around 207th st. Its been about 5 years since I have been there, so I would call them up and make sure they are still around and get current pricing from them. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 2:34am
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Compare the local place (if it still exists) and their prices to a couple of service centers recommended at PFF. Flow Testing and Cleaning http://www.cruzinperformance.com/fuelinj.html - Here - $16 per injector And this place which is just down in Washington State. http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorserv1.php4 - There - $18 per injector Okay, it’s late and I’m going to bed. I’m supposed to be working on my girlfriend’s Volvo tomorrow!
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 2:43am
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Ya I guess it is pushing 3am and I have to be up around 6am. Maybe I should hit the hay as well. As for working on a Volvo if you get stuck, Johny, my cousin aka Copbait, is a Volvo mechanic at a dealership in Poco. Drop me a PM or a call on my cell and I can get you his contact info you end up needing it. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 2:50am
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Thanks Dave, I'll keep your cousin in mind if I get stuck. (It's more damn AirCare issues.)
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 08 December 2008 at 3:26am
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Oh Frack Good Luck and good ngiht. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: bill
Date Posted: 16 December 2008 at 6:40am
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I'd think that hauling the injectors out and having them cleaned and checked might be a way to go. Or just put the original ones back in if you have them and see what difference it makes. ------------- 1988 3.2 turbo Fiero 1957 3.4 in Jamaican MG 2009 2.0 Pontiac GXP coupe |