Will This Work
Printed From: West Coast Fieros
Category: General Fiero Chat
Forum Name: General Talk about Fieros
Forum Description: Just want to chat about fieros? here's the place to make that happen.
URL: http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=950
Printed Date: 23 November 2024 at 3:31am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Will This Work
Posted By: Shakey Dave
Subject: Will This Work
Date Posted: 27 October 2008 at 8:31pm
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I'm having trouble with my EGR system. I don't want to spend a fortune fixing it , and I want to keep the engine looking stock. Will it cause any problems if I replace the gasket for the valve and one of the gaskets for the tube with solid pieces of metal shaped like the original gaskets. Then I would plug the input vacuum tube with a some type of plug, and replace the EGR valve cover with a new red one that I just brought (so the plugged line can't be seen). Next I would replace all of the pieces, and finally get the member (I don't know his name) who burns the chips to burn my existing ADS Super Chip for me. Voila ... no more Check Engine lights when we cruise the highway (I hope)! Will there be any adverse effects? Is there any other way to do it? ------------- "Shakey" Dave Hathaway www3.telus.net/myhistory |
Replies:
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 27 October 2008 at 11:05pm
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Hi Dave, Basically you want to do what I did. My EGR tube was cracked, so instead of replacing the tube just to have it crack again eventually, I "deleted" the EGR. No, you can't tell from looking at my engine, but the EGR is completely non-functional. I'll be able to tell you tomorrow if it passes AirCare. I got John Craker (Dr.Fiero in this forum) to burn a new chip which ignores the EGR, so the ECM doesn't throw any codes. I blocked off the EGR tube with a plate on both ends because it was cracked, but you'd only have to do it at the EGR valve end. I then put a ball bearing in the right angle fitting on the valve to complete the transformation. Here's a picture of my engine compartment with a couple of labels to make it clear for you. Hope this helps.
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 12:00am
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Ok let me interject the REAL info into debate.
Does Removing an EGR Kill a Piston YES. Does Removing an EGR Kill a Piston NO, IF you added a chip into the mix. How the EGR works is at part throttle or moderate acceleration conditions the EGR solenoid opens the EGR pod and introduces a small amount of heated exhaust gas. That exhaust has drastically less Oxygen content than your intake air. Effectively increasing the Fuel to Air Ratio in your combustion chamber. Having less useable Clean Intake Air (O2) the combustion chamber burns cooler and reducing NOX and reducing temps in your combustion chamber. Ok For Part 2 and I guess this is the part most people don’t understand, when the computer turns the EGR “ON” it also at the same time bumps up the ignition timing. So now the ECM THINKS it is adding Exhaust Gas and it THINKS it is reducing comb chamber temps, so it Spikes the ignition timing a few degrees. Which in reality, it I has just spiked your timing, and the EGR is NOT on, which is spiking your Combustion chamber temps. These are PERFECT conditions for detonation. The motor is now going to burn a piston and over time, cause real damage to the engine. This is a very bad thing. On top of the fact that all that hot exhaust gasses increase your intake air temp, and make the car not run as well. Due to the head soak affects of the hot exhaust heating the intake plenum. Oh did I mention, you also lose drivability with the EGR working RIGHT. Now here is what you have to do. Get a chip programmed to electronically disable the EGR. So now the ECM won’t be playing hopscotch with your timing. Remove the POD, Remove the Solenoid, remove all the hoses and lines and whatever you want. Next you need to cap BOTH ends of the EGR pipe NOT just one. The reason is, if the pipe fails, it will either leak vacuum into your intake if you have only the EGR valve side plugged causing high idle and tons of other issues. Or it will leak exhaust gas out the EGR as it ages and leaks over time it will leak the exhaust gas right into the engine bay. I have extensive knowledge in EGR tweaks and what will and won’t work. Have a good night guys. David 88GT BC Canada 85GT BC Canada ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 12:23am
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Does that imply my info was unreal? Cool.
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Capt Fiero wrote:
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 12:59am
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Ok I was asleep in bed, and hell I was half asleep when I wrote that post, however after reading the reply Patric left, (Club forum posts are CCed directly to my PDA) I felt the need to clarify a few things. Patric NOTHING was posted against you and you were not called WRONG. I simply wanted to add a few more important facts into this for the people that DID no know anything about the EGR system and how or what it does what it does.
I actually wrote up that post for a 2nd email list the Fieros@yahoogroups list where at least count 2000 people read it daily. I wanted to make the info as point blank as I could. Here I am usually a lite more gentle with my posts, however with me being about 3 hrs past my bedtime, I just did a quick copy and past and crashed off to bed. Please whoever is looking into this mod, read through it a couple More times, talk to people like Myself, Patric and Brian and see who and why we do this mod. One side not IT CANT BE DONE to an 88 Fiero and still expect it to pass. SO if you have an 88 you HAVE to make it reversible. Good Night All I am heading back to bed. Will chat another time. If someone needs some info, my phone and garage are usually open to stop by and yack in person. Just bring something to drink with ya. I don't usually have much on hand aside from Gatorade. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 1:45am
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No problem Dave, I was simply making a play on words. Remember, I'm older than you are. I was a teenager in the 60's and 70's. Picture Cheech and Chong reading my previous post out loud.
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 7:16am
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Sorry Patric. I didn't catch the Unreal. Note I posted that at 1am and I am posting this at 7am. (actually been up since 5am)
Back to Dave's original question. Dave you can disable it and leave it all there, or disable it and remove a great deal of vacuum lines from under the deck lid as well as a fair amount of clutter from the engine bay. However if you want to keep the stock look, that is always an option. The Chip that Dr. Fiero does up will tell the computer not to turn on the EGR until the engine reaches 999C (engine would be a puddle of molten steel at that point) So in effect making Code 32 a long lost memory. My 85GT passed Air-Care with Not Cat converter, No EGR system, a big aftermarket cam, and removed 1/2 of the PCV system. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 7:32am
| I just need all the poop on your car (or I'll just look at it), and a day or so's notice. $50 for the PROM. If you pre-dismantle your console etc so I have EASY access to the ECM I'll swap it over for you too (at a club meet, or my place). |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 7:57am
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Dave, did hear you mention something about an ADS Chip?
Stuff John is going to need to know ECM Number big long string of numbers on the front of it. Just in case someone has changed it from stock along its life. Year Engine Auto or Stick If your car is an Auto and you have an ADS chip, the main thing that the ADS chips changes is the "Torque Converter Lockup" speed. Which john would have to read the ADS chip to verify. ADS also increases the timing curve and fuel curve slightly. One of these days I have to take my ADS chip from here and deliver it to Dr. Fiero (John) and have him read it and see just what is tweaked on it compared to a stock 85GT Chip. Oh one other thing that John can do, that IMHO makes a really big difference in Fiero driving is the "injector kill" on deceleration. It does kinda reduce your fuel mileage, however it removes the LAG between on and off throttle while driving. The Fiero V6 kinda hiccups because it keeps shutting the fuel off when you let off the gas above 2000rpms. Drives me BATTY. So that is one tweak I get changed on every chip that goes into any of my cars. David ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 9:02pm
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Just scan your results and post. |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 10:26pm
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You need to advance the timing, the bounds of it ALOT. Your NOX are 1/10 of allowed meaning your combustion chamber temps are almost nothing, even with your egr deleted. EGR deletion usually raises the NOX to just barley passing, so you are so far down, you have got some serious fueling issues. You need to either raise your timing or reduce your fuel pressure. Then another option is to tweak your idle speed up. Get that bugger idling at 1500rpms. If you have to unplug the tach so they can't see it. I would guess you have at least one leaking injector, but that is manageable. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 11:24am
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Skip the idle speed. What was I thinking, must have been too tired.
Go buy a new O2 sensor. That is the other single thing that can cause a Fiero to run rich and get poor gas mileage. As for the timing I would bump it to 12' I run 12 on all my cars here. Seems to work well. ------------- Capt Fiero 88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
Posted By: Shakey Dave
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 1:49pm
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I'm just been keeping my head down so that it won't get cut off by one of you guys with differing opinions about EGR systems!!! I'm still confused (Parkinson's does that to a person) about what, in total, I have to do to get rid of my EGR system. Since I can only work very slowly (somedays, other days not at all) I'll have to digest everthing you've told me and get going on it. John ... Since I am due for several medical procedures and tests over the next few weeks, I will contact you when I feel I an ready to get the chip burned - maybe after the New Year. Thanks to you all for the information.
------------- "Shakey" Dave Hathaway www3.telus.net/myhistory |
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 2:24pm
It's confusing for those of us with NO medical condition as well. Dave, you need to tell us exactly what you mean by "get rid" of your EGR system. Do you want all physical traces of your EGR system to be removed from your engine (as well as the chip reprogramed), or do you simply want the EGR to be inactivated? You stated in your first post "I want to keep the engine looking stock", so that's why I showed and described to you what I've done to my GT. I have inactivated my EGR system. Sounds like David has removed all physical traces of his. Either method works, but it's up to YOU to decide which route you wish to go. |