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Ecotec Build |
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Medic 
Senior Member 
Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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 Topic: Ecotec BuildPosted: 06 December 2010 at 9:21am |
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Now that this car is in the building or rebuilding stage it is time to ask a few questions.
The clutch had or has hydraulic issues according to the previous owner/builder. It uses the sunbird Getrag trans(hence the sunbird slave), Darcy said the trans would "lock up" and not change gears (while using the clutch) when it was hot....let it cool down and it worked again. I find this a very odd statement as the clutch is a simple hydraulic system and I don't see how heat would have an affect on it.Especially since it's not close to a heat generating part like a manifold etc.. They apparently tried the Fiero and sunbird master with no success. To me, Sounds like air getting into the system or a trans issue? |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Patrick
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Joined: 19 April 2008 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: 06 December 2010 at 2:26pm |
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"lock up" is a rather ambiguous phrase to use in regards to this problem. What actually locks up? If it's just a matter of not being able to disengage the clutch when the engine is hot and running, what happens when the engine is turned off? Can the gears not then be changed? If the gears can be changed with the engine not running (with or without the clutch), I'd say it's a "bleeding" problem - air in the hydraulics. This of course is also dependent on a properly functioning master/slave cylinder, non-bent clutch pedal, non-cracked/broken clutch lever/fork, non-binding throwout bearing. If the gears can't be changed while the engine is not running, then it could be a shifter problem, shifter cable adjustment, or messed up tranny.
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 07 December 2010 at 3:00am |
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Ambiguous yes, but then Darcy does not know a lot about the mechanics of cars. He would have to change gears then re-start the car in the desired gear. Sounds like it was a hydro problem, and not a trans issue as the trans shifted when the car was off.
I did find a bent clutch pedal that I replaced yesterday and that may have compounded the issue, it may have binded.  I will know more by the weekend when I get the new master in and working. |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 09 December 2010 at 1:56pm |
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I got the clutch working today and I now know what they were talking about. If you press the clutch slowly it goes all the way to the floor and you can hear the slave pushing the pressure plate. If you press the clutch quickly the pedal stops approx halfway. return it to the top and press slow and it works again, press quickly and it will stop and you cannot press it down to the floor. This is what he meant by "lock".
This is very odd, I have never experienced this before. It happened with both (new) masters installed. It looks like something is binding in the slave/pressure plate/throwout bearing. Unfortunately to get to the slave you have to split the engine tranny. Looks like the engine has to come out. The slave is also $300 bills. |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Dawg
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Joined: 15 August 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Posted: 09 December 2010 at 3:07pm |
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The combination of bent pedal and the symptoms you're describing would lead me to believe the wrong push rod was installed. If the push rod is too short, you'll hit the snap ring and "lock". Going slow might allow the slave to leak past the seal if it had a bad seal but when pushing fast the cup expands right away. Just a guess there.
But yes, I would say you need to get to the slave for sure. The Dawg |
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You dream it up....I'll make it
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Patrick
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Posted: 09 December 2010 at 7:48pm |
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 09 December 2010 at 9:37pm |
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Yep, spent alot of time on that site. Good info and a few great swaps.
Love the turbo ecotec. |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Romeo
Senior Post God 
Joined: 16 November 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3033 |
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Posted: 10 December 2010 at 8:10am |
*Cough Cough EATON M80 SUPERCHARGER IS BETTER Cough* |
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Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 10 December 2010 at 10:55am |
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Define better......
S/C have their limitations. T/C are capable of a lot more power. It depends on what you are after in terms of performance. Plus for the Ecotec the S/C hangs off the intake side of the engine making clearance an issue in the fiero. Even GM went to T/C from S/C in their Cobalt SS. The cobalt now produces much more power and is capable of 400 hp with minor mods. You couldn't do that in the S/C cars. I like both options but am leaning to the turbo. I was leaning towards a T3/4 but picked up a T25 which should see gains of 60-70% and a very fast spool up with good low rpm torque. |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 11 December 2010 at 12:12pm |
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The trans is now out to get to the slave and see what is going on. Sometimes GM amazes me.....who was the engineer that designed a slave cylinder that goes inside the trans and is one piece with the throw out bearing?
  That's a problem just waiting to happen.Not sure if it's the issue or not. Nothing seems obvious but it is a little rough moving in and out.Under pressure it may bind. |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 13 December 2010 at 11:12am |
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While awaiting the clutch kit from California it was time to tackle the shifter issue. The shifter as installed was shifting backwards, that is...reverse and first were on the wrong side. First and second on the far right and reverse and fifth on the left. The shifter selector needed to be reversed. I've seen guys modify the Fiero shifter but then the console no longer fits due to a long shifter rod sticking up and a new taller console has to be built which looks odd and apparently the Sunfire shifter does not work so well in a Fiero... So.... Here's how I did it.........
 The shifter was originally connected to the lower ball(which can be seen poking through the new bracket). With a new arm attached and the use of a Heim Joint the pivot point was moved the the other end thereby reversing the shift selector pattern. A pull now moves the selector rod down instead of up.  The bracket etc is still a little rough and in need of completion but hooked up to the shifter it now works as it should with the side to side motion, No rubbing and no touching. |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Dawg
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Posted: 13 December 2010 at 11:39am |
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Way to go. Make sure you weld a gusset in there to stop any flex. It doesn't seem like there is a lot of pressure I know but over time, after 10 billion shifts, cracks can develop.
Good creative solution, I like. The Dawg |
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You dream it up....I'll make it
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 13 December 2010 at 12:06pm |
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Absolutely, It needs support. It is in the "will it work" phase right now. As it is, there's a little flex, but it needs to be solid and over engineered to be reliable.
Thanks for the advice.  |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Capt Fiero
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Founding Member Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4039 |
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Posted: 13 December 2010 at 12:53pm |
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WOW Steve, you have came a long way from the time when Parker and I helped you redo the top end on your 86GT. Congrats. When you and I were talking about you buying this thing, I honestly had no idea that you were able to do this kind of stuff, so when you said you bought it, I was rather worried that you were in over your head. I am glad to see I was sadly mistaken. So again, Congratulations.
David |
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Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6 Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd. |
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Patrick
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Joined: 19 April 2008 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: 13 December 2010 at 1:36pm |
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Steve's not just a Medic... he's now a Fiero Medic. Glad to see this project moving along!
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Romeo
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Joined: 16 November 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3033 |
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Posted: 13 December 2010 at 6:39pm |
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Thank goodness you didn't get frustrated and gut it, that's a fantastic little set-up.
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Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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Medic
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Joined: 31 October 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: 15 December 2010 at 11:44am |
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Picked up one of these at a great price......couldn't pass it up........
Includes everything needed except intercooler rad. M62 Eaton.  |
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88 GT Northstar 6 Spd
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Patrick
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Posted: 15 December 2010 at 12:32pm |
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I know I'm really jumping ahead here, but it would be great in the spring/summer to see this baby out on the autocross track!
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Car-2-Lo
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Joined: 14 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1266 |
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Posted: 15 December 2010 at 12:44pm |
WOW, that Supercharger is going to sound great there 
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Romeo
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Joined: 16 November 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3033 |
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Posted: 15 December 2010 at 7:36pm |
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Hehehe. I am SO stoked you went with the supercharger. As for the intercooler, we have an EcoBoosted Lincoln at school... I wonder if anyone would notice if it's intercooler went missing? Kidding!
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Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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Medic wrote: