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2.5 l fuel injector problem

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Rob N. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2.5 l fuel injector problem
    Posted: 13 March 2010 at 7:22pm

Hello, I missed getting to the meeting tonight in order to become a member. but my problem is: I have a 1987 2M4 that i've been trying to get started for over a year now. I put anew fuel pump in it, changed the filter, i have spark , changed the fuel injector , but it still will not spray. The is no voltage at the injector with the ignition turned on. Checked the fuses, fuseable links, every connector that i can find, and had ab aviatiion mechanic try and figure out the wireing.  Is it the ECM of the POM?

I live in Langley...

thanks Rob  

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Patrick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2010 at 11:37pm

Originally posted by Rob N. Rob N. wrote:

I have a 1987 2M4 that i've been trying to get started for over a year now.

I think it's been a little longer than you recall.

Originally posted by Rob N. Rob N. wrote:

Posted: 02 March 2008 at 4:42pm | IP Logged    
 
hello, I've got a 1987 2.5L sadan,  I have never posted to a Forum before...not sure how it is done??

Do you hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds when you turn the key?

Does the engine crank over when you try and start it?

If you spray starting fluid into the throttle body, will it start?

I'm just trying to determine what else might be messed up as well.

 

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Dr.Fiero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2010 at 7:32am
OK...  check list...

Does the check engine light come on with key just 'on'.

You're SURE you've got no power from GROUND to the red (might be pink/white) wire at the injector with the key on.

(I'll stop there, so we can do this in steps)

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Rob N. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2010 at 10:11am

hi, yes it has be over a year, lost track of time..

I hear the fuel pump pressuring up

when i turn the key to the start position there are 3 lights on , oil ignition 7 eng,

it cranks over, ok  all the lights go out, the oil pressure goes up.

the injector doesn't spray.

I've tried having someone put small amoounts of gas in the injector body and it back fires.

Ive ckecked the wire to plug and it is correct according to the books.

it has the high energy dist. so it can't be 180 deg out.

i don't know if the ground wire is ok or not. 

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Patrick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2010 at 1:15pm

Originally posted by Dr.Fiero Dr.Fiero wrote:

Does the check engine light come on with key just 'on'?

Originally posted by Rob N. Rob N. wrote:

when i turn the key to the start position there are 3 lights on , oil ignition 7 eng

What does "7 eng" mean?

Originally posted by Rob N. Rob N. wrote:

it has the high energy dist. so it can't be 180 deg out.

Well, being an '87 duke it has NO distributor, right?

John (Dr Fiero) is more knowledgeable than I am to walk you through the power to injector issue.

 

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Rob N. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2010 at 2:31pm

Hi, ok sorry , there are only 2 lights on when i turn the ignition to on:

Brake and Battery.  eng check light is not on.

the voltage at the injector is .220 volts

blue wire is ground ok.

red wire has the  .220 volys but it flucuates up and down.

Something else, the ECM is out of an S15...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2010 at 4:37pm

One thing I can suggest is to have a look at the bulbs in your instrument panel to make sure they're all good. 

There's no point informing us that your Check Engine light doesn't come on when it's actually the bulb which has burnt out.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2010 at 5:19pm
First thing - has this EVER run with that ECM.
Is it the same service number as the original, and was the Fiero PROM then moved into it?

With no CEL, that sometimes indicates an ECM malfunction.

.22 volts at the injector (with it unhooked)...  that's a 'bad thing'.  It (the red wire)  should read battery voltage.

Pull the "gauges" fuse (10 amp) and replace it.  No, I don't care that it looks fine.


Pull the "ECM/Ign" fuse (10 amp) and replace it.  No, I don't care that it looks fine either!


Try the above - and report back.

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Rob N. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2010 at 8:15pm

 

Thank you for all your help. I think I spok to you at the all pontiac show in south Langley last year.

The previous owner used to push start the car, but it did run with this ECM, I don't know it the PROM is from the Fiero or the S15.

What's a CEL?

Battery voltage when charged is 12.85 v But it's now on charge again. I'll replace the fuses indicated and report back.

Rob

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roadfury Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2010 at 8:40pm
I had the same problem with my GT. Mine was no grounds for the ECM, Maybe ask the Dr. which wires on the ECM harness are the grounds and test them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2010 at 8:59pm

Originally posted by Rob N. Rob N. wrote:

What's a CEL?

Check Engine Light

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2010 at 5:57pm

Hi,

I've replaced the : "gauges" fuse (10 amp) & "ECM/Ign" fuse (10 amp) and replaced them. 

No improvement. the Check Engine Light does not light with the Bat & Brake(emergency?) light.

The ECM is pn 1227748 and inked on it is  CHEV 89 53001855.

I confirmed that the previous owner used to push start it because the battery he had was almost dead. then the fuel pump went.

I'm wondering if this ECN has the right POM.

Lights work, fan, all that stuff.

Any more thoughts on the subject? 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2010 at 7:34pm
Ok...  the ECM (1227748) is correct.  You didn't post the code on the PROM, so I can't tell you what that's from (would look like "AKYN1234").

You're SURE this thing is an 87 (all of it!) right???

Key OFF, pull the ECM connector.
Pin C2 (Brn/Wht) on the ECM connector - ground it.
Key ON.  CEL should be ON.

If it's not - you have a burnt  bulb, or a wiring fault between the ECM and the dash.  No way I'm going to try and fix that one here....


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2010 at 8:29pm

Hi I tried taking the cover off the EMC but it had some sort of tamper seal on it. Car is in my front yard so I'll have to ckeck if it's AKYN1234

The reg says 87 , VIN    1G2PE11R9HP241145

By "pull the connector " do you mean access the connector behind the cigarette ligter pannel ? If yes, Il'' try that tomowrrow  

The CEL was working last year because I got the test code 12 when grounded.

if not that , I guess Ill have to rip the dash apart .

thanks...Rob

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2010 at 8:34pm

Did you ever have a look at the CEL bulb to make sure it was okay?

Originally posted by Patrick Patrick wrote:

One thing I can suggest is to have a look at the bulbs in your instrument panel to make sure they're all good. 

There's no point informing us that your Check Engine light doesn't come on when it's actually the bulb which has burnt out.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2010 at 8:39pm
Ok, well - the vin is for a 4cyl car from 1987.  Just wanted to make sure it wasn't yet another hacked together car....  trust me...  it happens...

The connector - I mean the ones on the ECM itself.

As for the cover - it's just "glued" there from not being taken off for 23 years.  Which...  come to think of it....  is a bad thing.  That means that nobody has had the cover off to put the correct PROM in it!!!

Anyhow - do that check I said above.  If you don't get a CEL, yank the cover off the back of the dash, and change the bulb (the easy route!).  Redo the test, and hope....

Since you've told me about that cover though - I'm betting it's an incorrect PROM, dead ECM, etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2010 at 9:05pm

OK, I'll find which of the 4 connectors on the ECM has a Pin C2 (Brn/Wht)wire. The are a lot of connectors on this thing and a ton of wires.

Next I'll tackle the bulb change, But I have a bad feeling you are right and it has the wrong POM and possable a dead ECM .

Question: if the ECM is dead would the old paper clip trick in the diagnostic link still work?
 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dr.Fiero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2010 at 9:41pm
It's really easy.

There's two plugs (one wide, one narrow).  Each plug has two rows of pins.  One row is A, another B....  etc.  It's marked (cast into it) which row is which.  Second pin over on "C" row.  No biggie.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob N. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2010 at 8:03pm

Hi, it's me again, by the way is there somewhere on this site that has a membership form?

The two plugs on the side of my ECM are the same width, the upper one is black, the lower one is white. Both are numbered 1-12 and 13-24 on either side.

However, I did the jumper wire in the ALDL connector of A & B terminals and got nothing...last year is flashed the 12 over and over.

No I haven't pulled the dash to check the bulb. You must have realy skinny hands to be able to reach up in behind the dash.

The POM by the way is pn ACMH9544  and not the pnAKYN1234 that is should be..

any ideas about replacing it? 

Sorry to be such a bother, but this car is getting close to the wrecker all the time.

Rob

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Patrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2010 at 9:05pm

Originally posted by Rob N. Rob N. wrote:

No I haven't pulled the dash to check the bulb. You must have realy skinny hands to be able to reach up in behind the dash.

"reach up"?

Ummm... there's nothing unusual about the size of hands required to take the back of the instrument panel pod off. The screws on top are obvious and easy to get to, and there's two screws underneath, one on each side.

Once the back is off, all the bulb sockets are in plain view.

Originally posted by Rob N. Rob N. wrote:

...by the way is there somewhere on this site that has a membership form?

No, ya gotta come to a meeting. Take a chance, we're not a bad bunch.

 

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