My 3800 SC1 swap |
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Patrick
Newbie Joined: 19 April 2008 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 5 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 July 2010 at 11:15pm | |
So, are you sharpening your skills on the Fiero so that you can use them on the tractor?
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 August 2010 at 10:28pm | |
Well I got the exhaust installed and trunk all patched up and finished and that is all fine and dandy.
But now I think theres something wrong in the transmission. I got a permit today and started driving around and it is really really sluggish when I start moving. The SES light came on I believe when it was shifting while going uphill. It seems like there is a lot of slippage in the transmission, it takes much longer to get going when its uphill. Any ideas? I will hopefully get to borrow a scantool tomorrow so I can run the codes and see what the computer has to say. I also couldnt get the speedo working so wonder if its possible the sensors not working, would that cause any isssues like this? Here's a video I took today with the exhaust installed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-685gWXNsb0 |
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Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 August 2010 at 6:12am | |
Save me having to read numerous pages... what trans?
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 August 2010 at 6:54am | |
4t60e from the 1995 oldsmobile 88 obd1.
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Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 August 2010 at 8:17am | |
Yeah, GOTTA pull those codes!
I have a chart if you can. If you have no VSS input to the ECM, it'll have no idea if you're moving (etc) so it'll definitely cause shifting issues. Luckily you only had a day permit, or I was going to say "Stop driving it!" before you really toast the thing. The wiring - is it 100% from the donor car, as is the ECM etc? 94/95 was a very strange time for GM, and a LOT of changes were going on. Fair warning - it's probably OBD1.5 (the connector could be a 12 or 16 pin connector - and MOST scan tools won't read it). |
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Patrick
Newbie Joined: 19 April 2008 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 5 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 August 2010 at 9:23am | |
Or is that an old truck in the background (with probably its engine in the foreground)?
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 August 2010 at 11:37pm | |
That's the "other truck" in the background. The engine is for yet another truck that might get restored eventually. It's all my dads WWII stuff, we take the good truck to quite a few events every year and sets up displays. Most of the time it lives at their museum on CFB chilliwak.
I had the codes checked yesterday and it was in fact the VSS not feeding the PCM, causing it to go into limp mode and stay in second gear. I did reroute all the wires in the engine bay and to the computer and tested them all following the pin outs on the gmtuners site and everything checked out. Looking again at the VSS plug, I connected pin A and B where it said to put them but the colors were opposite. Today I switched them around but have yet to test them since I'm all out of tranny fluid after changing the filter. I also fixed the CV boot clamp that popped off and sprayed goo everywhere and installed the temp sensor from the 2.8 so I can have a working water temp gauge. Tomorrow I will test it again and see if swapping VSS wires fixes the issues or if the VSS itself is faulty in which case I will grab a spare or 2 from pick-a-part on our way out to chilliwak. And here is a quick phone video with exhaust installed, I have yet to make a better video that includes more than just idling. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-685gWXNsb0 |
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Dr.Fiero
Senior Post God Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1726 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 August 2010 at 8:53am | |
Just yank the VSS, and spin it up with a drill while watching the speedo and your scan tool (to make sure they're BOTH seeing it!).
I hate CV grease. Bleah. That sh*t gets everywhere, and is like spray on glue! Oh yeah, and if you don't see a reading on the computer or speedo, hook your volt meter up (on AC) to the vss and spin it up again. At least then you'll know if it's the unit, or the wiring. |
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 August 2010 at 8:12pm | |
There's nothing really to spin on the VSS, it's just s solid cylinder with a magnet.
But I did hook it up to a voltmeter while pulling it close and far to something magnetic and was getting a reading with the original VSS. And I am stumped, replaced the VSS with one from pick-a-part, (I got a few spares as well) and no change, I hooked up a volt meter to the VSS wires at the ECM plug and spun the wheel by hand and it got a reading. I tried switching the wires since then and no change. When I had the scantool, we drove down the block and it was getting no signal at all from the VSS. I also opened up the ECM case and took out the circuit board and inspected it for any broken links and found nothing. I really don't know what else it could be, I emailed Ryan at GMtuners since he programmed my chip for his input but in the meantime, anyone got any more ideas? |
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Romeo
Senior Post God Joined: 16 November 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3033 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 August 2010 at 9:27pm | |
Grab an electrical diagram if you can, then that should help you pinpoint exactly where your fault lies.
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Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 August 2010 at 10:18pm | |
I have the diagrams for my engine but out of an olds ninety-eight instead of the 88 but it's all been the same so far except the purple and yellow wires are in the opposite spots in the VSS plug.
I have traced the entire length of wires sensor to the ECM with no problems. The only thing I have left to try is one of the speed sensors i grabbed from the junkyard had the yellow and purple wires reversed in pins A and B. I don't expect that to change anything but I might as well give it a try. I am pretty sure my original VSS worked anyway and the problem lies elsewhere. If I were to connect the VSS directly to the speedo as it was stock, would the speedo do something? Just to make sure a proper signal is coming from the VSS down the wires. I know it wouldn't be accurate anyway because of the 4000/2000ppm thing but would it do something? |
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 August 2010 at 9:19pm | |
So I have done everything else and decided there is something wrong with the ECM. So off to pick-a-part again this weekend and hope there is a superchaged series 1 car with the ECM still in there.
I found a nice intake hose last time I was there off a '91 pontiac 6000 that is almost a perfect fit. One end just needed a little modifying to fit over the airbox outlet because it was too small but otherwise fits great. I have a picture on my camera but that is in langley at the moment so I will get that on later this week. I am currently working on a stronger alternator bracket since my current one has too much flex in it and make me worry about the lifespan of the alternator with all its wobbliness. Borrowing a cutting torch from work tomorrow so I can cut the steel plate I have for it. I have also been trying to figure out what I can to for a dog bone mount or equivalent. This is what I had on one of the transmission mounts. I took it off today and it seems pretty worn. I plan on replacing it with a steel rod with an adjustable stop and see if that has much of an affect on engine movement. Here's a short video of the movement that happens just when shifting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdW_mbdkLI8 One of these days I will take a video with an actual camera and not just the iphone. Hopefully tomorrow I will get the alt bracket and mount modifications done. I was down in Washington all weekend but have Septembers meeting marked on the calender so I will be there hopefully with a driveable fiero this time. |
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Romeo
Senior Post God Joined: 16 November 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3033 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 August 2010 at 10:34pm | |
For the dog bone mount, is it at all possible to simply modify a Fiero dog bone into what you need?
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Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2010 at 9:42pm | |
Well I could use the "U" piece that bolts to the dogbone, but I would have to fab up the rest of the bracket down the the cylinder head. That was my first plan, my dad suggested the torque rod down low. So if that doesn't work, I'll build a dogbone up top.
Today I did get that torque bar done and installed, no pics and i will have to finish my alternator mount before I can test it again but it looks pretty good so far. It is still adjustable if I need to change it. |
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 August 2010 at 10:14pm | |
I figured out my problem!
The little metal sockets at the end of each wire inside the ECM plug were bent just a little bit wider. So when it was plugged into the ECM, it wasn't actually contacting the pin inside. bent it right and all was good, not a very easy thing to track down... Here is a picture of my beefed up Alternator bracket I finished this week. And here is the intake hose I am using from a '91 pontiac 6000 After some more test driving around another code popped up after about 20 minutes riding around. Don't remember the number but its the sensor circuit for the O2 sensor. Could be in the wiring, could be the sensor itself but I will check that tomorrow. I had a permit today and it ran fine so I was too busy playing with it to work on it. There is a bit of a shutter in the right rear wheel area. I notice it more on tight left turns. The rotor also binds in the caliper in one spot on that wheel but I've ruled out the rotor itself so I may need to replace the hub. Could it also be the axle? While I still thought it was my ECM that was broken and then that it was something in my wiring that was breaking them I now have 2 spare ECMs- one with a N/A prom and one with the SC if anyone wants a series 1 ECM. |
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 September 2010 at 9:39am | |
I got the fiero back together yesterday, I had the right rear axle out to replace a boot and seal on the trans.
I also figured out why that wheel kept binding in the same spot. There wasn't enough clearance between the axle and that box thing where the control arm bolts into for the connector part of the CV boot clamp. So that would also explain the noise coming from there and why I kept tearing through clamps. The metal in the cradle was quite worn away in that one spot. I ground it down much further and shimmed up that side of the engine about 1/8" to give it enough clearance but if I ever replace the mounts I will move it a little further forward I think. Here is how much clearance I now have: I also installed a small transmission cooler in front of the right rear wheel. Won't do a whole lot till I put a scoop on that side to get air moving but will be ok for now. And here is that torque rod from earlier: Still have to get the speedo hooked up and might have to replace the O2 sensor. Still need to do some testing on that. If all goes well I should be able to get it to the meeting this weekend. |
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 September 2010 at 4:37pm | |
IT IS COMPLETE!
I finally got around to properly hooking up the speedometer yesterday and after fixing a busted hinge on one of the ashtray covers, the swap is 100% done. There is always going to be other stuff to work on though of course, like filling the antena hole, adding a scoop for that hidden trans cooler but for now, everything is done. Once the weather clears up I will take lots of nice photos of the whole car and post them up. I might try to make it out this saturday to the autocross just to spectate and check things out a bit as well. |
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Patrick
Newbie Joined: 19 April 2008 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 5 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 September 2010 at 5:17pm | |
Oh you silly silly fellow, you have so much to learn about Fiero ownership!
The first time I went out to the track (in August) I also went as a spectator, and I hated it. I hated it because after about two minutes I wanted to be out on the blacktop spinning my tires as well! However, I had a legitimate excuse not to be driving as I had Frankie (the hound) with me. Don't just come out to be a spectator. Drive your car! Honestly, it won't be hard on your car. You won't get out of second gear, you'll probably only be doing a maximum of 50 mph or so on the short straights, and you'll only be zipping around for a minute at a time. If we're all lucky we'll get perhaps eight trips each around the course. If you only come out to watch, you'll regret it!
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 October 2010 at 9:20pm | |
Edit- pics dont seem to be working from my phone, will figure it out
and fix it when I get on a computer. So now that I have driven it around for a while, I have a good idea of my gas mileage, which isn't as good as I was hoping. I average 12-13 L/100km or about 18 mpg. Anyone have suggestions for how to improve that? My northstar eldorado gets the same mileage. Im pretty sure my front end is in fact higher then the rear. Compare the bottom of the car along the sidewalk and you'll see it. Had a chance to test the cars limits in the wet the other day, I don't really have much to compare it to since everything else I usually drive is either a whole lot bigger or just small 4 doors. But I like how it handles for the most part. But I will have to get good at trail braking to get a little more traction on the front wheels in the wet I think. I also got me another 88GT :P Should be a fun little side project for when I can't play with real cars. I will also get a for sale thread going when I get home and take some more pics of my leftovers. But the big things are 2 v6s that would need some rebuilding, auto trans, pre 88 cradle and isuzu. |
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-Harrison
88GT 3800 SC1 F23 5-speed Chilliwack |
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D_sensitized
Admin Group Executive Member Joined: 25 March 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 October 2010 at 4:44pm | |
A quick video I just made of the exhaust like everyone else does :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf4UB5HoaG8 |
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-Harrison
88GT 3800 SC1 F23 5-speed Chilliwack |
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